Difficulties with a breeder

WrongsideRandy · Post by **WrongsideRandy** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 3:10 pm

Cindy, I believe it...there is no money to be made when you are small and breed a litter or two every now and then. But if someone was breeding 20-30 bitches a year, or more and own the stud dogs......and have a decent priced vet, you can make money at $150 a pup, so I can imagine what could be made at $800-1000 if someone wanted to do that. A lot of untaxed money floating around(which I have nothing aginst), which is why I said no wonder the USDA(Government) wants involved. I dont think it has anything to do with anti hunting getting a foot in, I think it has to do with $$$$ and government. Beagles are cheap compared to bird dogs and coon dogs........so think what the Feds are missing out on that side. Just thinking out loud.

Best to you all,
Randy

Honey Pot Hounds · Post by **Honey Pot Hounds** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 3:32 pm

20-30 bitches a year is a commercial set-up. I don't personally know anyone who breeds that many Beagles. They wouldn't be "our" kind of people (sporting/hobby dog people)...I think they would be A USDA LICENSED PUPPYMILL, lol!!! And rightly so!

I just want 3-4 bitches of my own to show & breed in my own home.......you'd have to be crazy to want 20-30 bitches IMHO. Sheit, the three I have right now are pains in the butt enough

show dog · Post by **show dog** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 10:04 pm

My first beagle, Krunch, was full hunting stock with a muscular disorder and very bad rear end. I didn't know anything when I got her, just wanted a beagle right now. She was the Milkbone beagle, starred in many movies and commercials and made over 500 therapy dog visits. She changed a child's life through my reading program Story Dogs. She was and is much honored in our communtiy. She died of lymphoma in Dec. 04.

Second beagle, half show/half field (Krunch). She is going out to make a movie again tomorrow- she has to look like a sad beagle. She is 11 years old. I showed her, 2 points, a dud. Works with me in everything else. Has part of her beginners agility title.

Third beagle, 4 years old- related to second one's stud, $500. She had an allergic reaction to lepto then to rabies vaccine. Spent 2.5 years dealing with freak dog. She is just getting back in her body through homeopathics- mainstream had no clue what to do. Showed her, 2 points, and LPH and SPO with her. A dud... but she is doing agility and works with my Honda business, made one commercial, is a therapydog and will be ready this time next year for more of that movie stuff.

Fourth beagle- Risa, beautiful $800, snorts like a pig, changed bloodline to get away from health problems lol. Will be getting her or the money on Thursday. Time's up. Vet says she has a positional blockage of unknown origin. $1200 to $2300 cdn to stop the snort. She is active and busy otherwise. She will work, no showing, once I get her Thursday.

Thanks for the offer of a pup. I am an exceptional home- how many can hunt their beagle in the early morning, send them to a movie set in the afternoon and do a therpay dog visit with disturbed teenagers in the evening? Other days they see anywhere up to 1000 children, smiles for all.

Thanks for all your input. Some action will be happening on Thursday and it won't be involving lawyer fees.

Carolyn

HatterasBob · Post by **HatterasBob** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 6:16 am

Carolyn,
I have a bitch that you could describe as "Snorts like a pig". I don't think there is a respirtory problem with her. I have seen many other beagles do this when being released at a field trial. Is your snorting inhaling or exhaling. Mine is inhaling and seems to be associationed with pulling on the leash and wanting to use her nose to look for bunnies. It sounds nasty, but once released it ends and does not return. Maybe your dog is just trying to clear her nose for some new smells.
Bob

crewchf · Post by **crewchf** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 6:31 am

Roger that Bob!!! My female Savannah does the same thing till we cut her loose in the field. I'll bet a lot of em do this...

Crew Chief

oakhill · Post by **oakhill** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 9:15 am

I have some that snort in the field. Doesn't cause them any problems except sounds like a hog in the brush, lol.

AlabamaSwamper · Post by **AlabamaSwamper** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 10:06 am

I just have a couple of questions.

What type of "guarantee" did they give you when you bought the pup?

If none, why do you think it is their responsibility.

IF they did, I would hold them to their word/contract.

hesres · Post by **hesres** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 10:37 am

Our beagles snort & wheeze & from what I've heard alot of them do. It has something to do with a soft palette that makes them "reverse sneeze". Sometimes they do it on a lead but most times just start snorting-like sucking in gulps of air. To stop it, try rubbing the throat or covering the nostrils. This makes them swallow. I don't know what Show Dogs vet diagnosed but snorting & wheezing & gasping in a conformation ring can't be good. I don't know whether this is a genetic trait that could appear in puppy even if it did not show in a parent. If the breeder won't take Show Dogs pup back ask for a partial refund to pet quality at least. I don't think it makes any difference whether the pup came from a show breeder or hunting breeder. Some of them snort.

show dog · Post by **show dog** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 8:52 pm

This dog has a positional blockage in the back of her throat, apparent from 8 weeks, getting more obvious as she matures. It is not reverse breathing. It is aggrevated in the stacked show position and when she looks up at you. It is a very atypical presentation. I would not breed her with this problem so will not show her. Waste of money!

I bought her with a contract that says she is free of congenital abnormalities and is of show quality and that I would make every effort to get her title. She is neither and that is my contention with the breeder. There was a resisitant removal of the dog from my home. I have neither dog or money but my husband is valiantly trying to recoupe one or the other.

Carolyn

show dog · Post by **show dog** » Tue Aug 23, 2005 8:52 pm

see above

hesres · Post by **hesres** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 10:15 am

Carolyn, Maybe you ought to put the kennel name on this board. $600 - $ 700 is ridiculous for a pet quality Beagle. I've had long-time "pets" that I would not sell for that amount but I'd never buy a new one for that much. Free or cheap Beagles can be found & the rescues are full of Beagles. We showed & bred a different breed in AKC conformation & our policy was to take the dog back at any time, any reason, any age & give refund. Why would this breeder think its a show quality pup if it obviously can't be shown? Show quality should mean more than just the outward physical appearance that may exceed the standard otherwise "breeders" could sell anything if it simply means you can take the dog into the ring & "show" it. We can't see "movement" when the dog is still & a dog that moves badly is not show quality anymore than one that can't breathe even standing still.

show dog · Post by **show dog** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 4:49 pm

My husband has negotiated a $750 refund ($50 to cover a vet cost). I had a trip to the hospital at 0100h to get some help to get to sleep. I work so hard with my dogs dealing with this has been way out of line resulting in stress overload for too many. If the dog is so great and the breeder has possession, they can sell her to someone else. Thanks for all your input, comments, support. Carolyn

warddog · Post by **warddog** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 6:05 pm

If that contract states as you said, Show quality with NO congenital defects and is signed by both buyer and seller, I would take nothing less than my full refund back. I don't know why you don't have the dog or the money but one thing I would have is claim in small claims court for the largest amount I could sue the breeder for. If you have taken that pup to 4 different Vets and they all concured, in writting, on the diagnosis you have a slam dunk case with enough subject matter evidence to prevail. The award to you should be the original cost of the pup plus any and all VET expenses that you had to incur to prove to this so called breeder that the pup in fact had a congenital defect and any fees incured to recoup your money up to the limits of the small claims court. If in fact that was a true breeder they should be more concerned with improving the breed than the almighty dollar.

crewchf · Post by **crewchf** » Thu Aug 25, 2005 5:56 am

Carolyn,, Believe I'd scratch that last post till you get the check in your hand!!!

Crew Chief

Emery · Post by **Emery** » Thu Aug 25, 2005 8:14 am

Not that I am planning on going to Canada to buy a pup anytime soon, I too would like to know the name of the kennel involved to keep it for reference for future purposes.

Thanks,
Emery