Patch guys what do you think?

mike crabtree · Post by **mike crabtree** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 4:52 pm

What do you guys think about this pedigree? This bitch is doing real well now that she weighs less than me !

--------------------------------------------------PennyroyalPatchCasey
--------------------------Bo's Patch Stupe
--------------------------------------------------Tussey's White Lady
----------------BO's Patch Trooper
-------------------------------------------------BOSS HOGG IV
------------------------Buckeye Patch Gidget
-------------------------------------------------BUCKEYE PATCH MISTY
Sire Eberles Hammeren Patch Casey
--------------------------------------------------Buckeye Patch Blitzer
------------------------- PennyroyalPatchCasey
--------------------------------------------------BUCKEYE PATCH MISTY
----------------Bo's Patch Katie
--------------------------------------------------PARCHMAN'S LIGHTING PATCH
------------------------Tussey's White Lady
--------------------------------------------------PARCHMAN'S Snow Patchess

--------------------------------------------------MIKE'S LUCKY PATCH
------------------------------------BARNEY PATCH OF NORTH RIVER
--------------------------------------------------IMPIE PATCh
---------------BOQUET RIVER PAL PATCH
--------------------------------------------------GLENNS MCDUFF
------------------------------------GARNET PATCH
--------------------------------------------------LAZy ACRES ECHO
DAM EBERLES HAMMEREN PATCH ROSE
-------------------------------------------------AUTUMN ACRES BEAU
-----------------------------------AUTUMN ACRES CHARLIE PATCH
-------------------------------------------------AUTUMN ACRES DIXIE PATCH
---------------WHITE PATCH
-------------------------------------------------LUCKY PATCH OF NORTH RIVER
----------------------------------DAISEY PATCH OF NORTH RIVER
----------------------------------------------- RUBY PATCH OF NORTH RIVER

tnbeagleman · Post by **tnbeagleman** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 10:00 pm

I don't know about the bottom side but I know a little about the top side. Get rid of that hound!! Send him down here to me and I will try to find it a home.

HighRoller · Post by **HighRoller** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 5:35 am

Not downing your dog at all but it might be lacking in foot due to some of the breeding on the top side as far as comparing to most patch with the Yates breeding.I think the Yates breeding tend to have abit more foot. All in all it's bred pretty well and should make you a good 1.The BossHogg is a cross from Pearson Creek thats why I wonder about the foot. Truely only time will tell. Just my opion.

DOGRUNNER · Post by **DOGRUNNER** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 6:44 am

Not bad dont know to much about the top half but if im guessing the bottm half is out of upstate NY. If that is right then you shoud have some rel nice dogs.

Gregg

Plowboy · Post by **Plowboy** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 8:55 am

Mike,
I don't know much about the subject but here's what I do...
Top side full of Pennyroyal Casey x Tusseys White lady, probably one of, if not, the top breeding ever made as Patch go. The Boss Hog does have the pearson creek but I doubt one cross a couple Gens back would influence the speed much. I don't understand the Yates comment either, Tusseys White Lady is the only hound in the bunch with Yates breeding in her. You usually get hunt & line control & good handling but not an increase of speed from Yates, but thats just my take. The bottom side is Cappozio, I have seen similar they have lots of foot but really tight on mouth. Most are tri-colored that I have seen.
You could get a lot of input from Mike Eberle in Ohio, I would say he owns the Sire & Dam.
I would say you will have plenty of hunt with good speed, my best advice would be strap on an e- collar around bright eyes for sure.
This is just my opinion and in no way tells you what she will do, only time in the briars can do that, good luck with her.
Plowboy

HighRoller · Post by **HighRoller** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 9:11 am

I'd misspoke, I should have said Patchs bred like this one vs Yates breeding.I'm only sugguesting what I've seen in the different breedings of mostly
northern bred patches if you will verses the Yates breeding.I'm not at all saying anything bad about his dog.Infact as I said only time will tale as with any pup.Also if I remember correctly these same thoughts were convaid to me by someone a few years back on the BossHogg cross,now if I could only remember who that came from.I'll be sure to repost as soon as I recall the guy that had these same thoughts.Again Mike I'm not downing your dog in anyway,infact I hope it makes you a stemwinder.

mike crabtree · Post by **mike crabtree** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 10:44 am

Keep it coming boys. You cant hurt my feelings a bit. She seems to be pretty fast. She has very good hunt with no quit, even when she was mud fat.

marr24 · Post by **marr24** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 11:36 am

We've had some patch dogs out of Pennyroyal patch casey and Tussey's White Lady and all of them have been very fast! They could burn up either a cottontail or a hare! I've never actually seen a patch bred hound that wasn't fast.

S.R.Patch · Post by **S.R.Patch** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 11:44 am

What do you guys think about this pedigree? This bitch is doing real well now that she weighs less than me !

--------------------------------------------------PennyroyalPatchCasey
--------------------------Bo's Patch Stupe
--------------------------------------------------Tussey's White Lady
----------------BO's Patch Trooper
-------------------------------------------------BOSS HOGG IV
------------------------Buckeye Patch Gidget
-------------------------------------------------BUCKEYE PATCH MISTY
Sire Eberles Hammeren Patch Casey
--------------------------------------------------Buckeye Patch Blitzer
------------------------- PennyroyalPatchCasey
--------------------------------------------------BUCKEYE PATCH MISTY
----------------Bo's Patch Katie
--------------------------------------------------PARCHMAN'S LIGHTING PATCH
------------------------Tussey's White Lady
--------------------------------------------------PARCHMAN'S Snow Patchess

--------------------------------------------------MIKE'S LUCKY PATCH
------------------------------------BARNEY PATCH OF NORTH RIVER
--------------------------------------------------IMPIE PATCh
---------------BOQUET RIVER PAL PATCH
--------------------------------------------------GLENNS MCDUFF
------------------------------------GARNET PATCH
--------------------------------------------------LAZy ACRES ECHO
DAM EBERLES HAMMEREN PATCH ROSE
-------------------------------------------------AUTUMN ACRES BEAU
-----------------------------------AUTUMN ACRES CHARLIE PATCH
-------------------------------------------------AUTUMN ACRES DIXIE PATCH
---------------WHITE PATCH
-------------------------------------------------LUCKY PATCH OF NORTH RIVER
----------------------------------DAISEY PATCH OF NORTH RIVER
----------------------------------------------- RUBY PATCH OF NORTH RIVER
===============================================

The "Bo" most likely came from the Bo Davison patch breeding. I think Mossie said, they got Tussey's White lady from Bo.
From all word, Bo had great hounds but gave them up when he had marriage troubles.
The Trooper name sounds familar, I talked with a fellow in Va. that had a hound with a very similar name and another he called "Diesel", I believe.
Have no worry about the Pearson Creek cross way back slowing them down, Jason was 40+ yrs ago and 5 generations. The Bald Eagle breeding has the same cross and they culled Yates for being to slow for their hounds, so it all subjective.
The bitch side seems to be mainly from Mike Capozzi's breeding.
Best of luck with your hound...Patch

LR Patch · Post by **LR Patch** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 5:02 pm

Mike here's my take.Pedigree's are important as we all know.This gyp is bred up as good as most will be these days.Plowboys is right atleast on the sire and very well might be on the dam.I talked to Mike Eberle a month
or so age and I know he has the Casey dog but he didn't talk about the Rose bitch but he's a stright up guy and if you havent talked to him give him a shout.He'll tell you stright.
Now as I started pedigree's are important but we all know they don't run the rabbit.If your bitch makes you happy,you buy the feed and your the only 1 she has to suit.I'm sure you know that.Some guys may try to blow smoke,not saying that here but some will and do.It's all a gamble on breeding by pedigree unless it's a proven cross.All we can do is all ways try to better what we start with.
A lot know the Patch line better than me but I don't think anyone will ever
figure it out like it's originator.
Run the hair off their tale if they suit you,get rid of them if they don't!!!!!

Plowboy · Post by **Plowboy** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 7:31 pm

That speed thing is such an elusive critter to figure out just from names. I know boys in Ky that have had 2 or 3 crosses of the pennyroyal sweetie in their Patch that complained they could not fall out of a tree, where as S.R. stated the Bald Eagles say theirs are fast. I bought the 2 so-called culls Yates stock that were bred by Leroy Miller from stock given to him by Yates & they are medium speed dogs at best but solid in all other categories, anyone is welcome to run with some of the off-spring if there are doubts of thier producing power. I got some pure Yates stock through Billy Ballard & A.R Cooper that came through Mr. Cleve in Mississippi straight from Yates & they can fly. I have had the Stupe X White Lady or variations of it for the longest from Elmer & some were fast & some not. I have crossed all the above back & forth & sideways & culled for the most speed with the least mistakes, such as way overunning & slipping the line hush mouth & other faults by my definition & that is all a man can do is put together a program that will produce "his type" of hound. I believe so many indiviuals with so many different tastes have fiddled with the hounds it is tough to get a baseline on speed. The one thing I have found that stays pretty true to the strain is hunt, that seems to be a common thread throughout the years & the different hands these dogs pass through have not tarnished that quality. I hope this gyp turns out to be "your kind" She is a fine looking hound.
Plowboy

DOGRUNNER · Post by **DOGRUNNER** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 9:53 pm

I havent run anything from Mike Cs stuff in about 20 years but if he is still breeding the same kind of dog them she should have good foot speed and plenty of hunt and like Plow said might be a little tight mouthed. I knew quite a few guys that had dogs from him a long time ago and they were all great dogs and Im sure he still is very selective on the breeding. I just might make a call and see what a cousin say about his dog today. Mike c only lived about 30 miles from where i grow up in Ny and wouldnt mind stoping by and talking to him but he is a hard man to track down.

Gregg

briarycreek · Post by **briarycreek** » Fri Jul 29, 2005 8:24 am

Mike this is a beautiful hound. Wish she were mine and you had a
BETTER one. She is breed very nicely. The top side is out of some
very fine breeding and the bottom side comes from Mike Capozzi's
kennel as you probably already know. Dennis Goad who has Superior
Patch Kennels in OK. has a male that is breed similar to your gyps
mother. Dennis has said that his male crosses well with hounds that
carry alot of the Pennyroyal Patch Casey blood up close. Check out
his web site and talk to him if you wish. He is a great guy. He can
give you some insight to this line of Patch.
I would not worry about the Boss Hogg IV at all. It may be a plus
to your hounds pedigree. Everyone wants to talk about his dam,
Pennyroyal Sweetie but his sire is the same sire as Pennyroyal Patch
Casey, Buckeye Patch Blitzer.
---------------------------------------------------Buckeye Patch Blitzer
------------------------------------Boss Hogg IV
---------------------------------------------------Pennyroyal Sweetie
-----------------Buckeye Patch Gidget
---------------------------------------------------Patch Red Pepper
------------------------------------Buckeye Patch Misty
---------------------------------------------------Bitteroot Trumpet

Boss Hogg IV (same sire as Casey) was breed to Buckeye Patch Misty,
who as you may already know is the mother of Pennyroyal Patch Casey.
They produced Buckeye Patch Gidget who is a half sister to Casey.
It seems to me that there is alot of the same blood in Gidget that is in
Pennyroyal Patch Casey. Don't believe that this cross of Boss Hogg IV
weakened your dog's pedigree at all.
I myself like the Yates dogs especially when crossed with Pennyroyal
Patch Casey. Those Yates hounds that I have seen really have some
good hunt to them. I have never had a pure Yates breed hound but have
seen where pups with alot of Yates Blood in them really tear up the
bushes. Plowboy has helped me more with my Patch dogs than anybody
out there and I have seen alot of good stuff come from his Yates breed
dogs. I would cull a dog but not because he has Yates blood in him. If
you are mainly hunting cottontails you should check out the Yates dogs
that Plowboy has and decide for yourself about them.
As I said she is a real nice dog and maybe we can get together some
time and run some patch hounds. I would like to see your female run.
Scottsville, Va is not that far from your part of Virginia.

Dave

S.R.Patch · Post by **S.R.Patch** » Fri Jul 29, 2005 12:58 pm

There's alot of assumptions going on here and it's mostly wrong. Your right, you can't look at names and make solid calls, you have to know what you like and where it comes from first, before theres hope of repeating it.
Sweetie was loaded up on Hooter(Casey's brother), better on cottontail but not at putting the wallop in the pups, then, their is the bitch side he was bred to, what did it contribute or take away. Now, if brothers could be that different, think what pups out of different patch bitches might be or even a outcross, could get better/could get worse. You have to know the hounds involved and at best, what the percentages say, they may offer to the breeding and then only after making the breeding and raising a number of the offspring will you know the results.
Thats the trouble with this game, sometimes it's late in the 7th inning before your sure if the score is close or not...
Having the eye to recognize your producers and keeping them foremost in the pedigree will do alot in preventing the game from becoming a total shutout... Thats where Mike Yates told me they were at before he got the patches. The hounds they had bred, had evolved down to 2-3 hour hunters, then, they were done and at your heels. He called Randall to get a new start, with hounds that had the stamina to hunt all day/everyday. Now these early hounds did not suit his type but, he knew they were a solid foundation to build from, so he took to breeding them and selecting from the pups, those that exhibited the traites that he wanted. No doubt 30 years has changed them and establish somewhat the consistancy he wanted, but as it's always a struggle to maintain the balance, the right hounds must be used to keep the boat upright.
Hope your hound becomes a good one and gives you they type you like...
Best of luck with your choices...

mike crabtree · Post by **mike crabtree** » Fri Jul 29, 2005 1:03 pm

She has never quit on me. She is a little tight, but I can live with that.Better tight than loose.

She has plenty of foot.Now that I have her back on full feed she is a very good bitch.