PJ: our lingo is a bit different and I don't have a clear understanding of the pups searching method. "the pup doesn't drift he works the check in a circular motin not drifts in one way" may not give me a clear picture of your pups searching ability. Could you describe it in more detail.
What do you think is holding the 6 year old back from winning a trial? I've only ever been to a couple of ARHA trials and only ever entered one in NJ and that was a while ago. I'm interested in knowing the scores the hounds are getting at those trials if you recall them?
misunderstandings over defining your ideal beagle?
Moderators: Pike Ridge Beagles, Aaron Bartlett
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MSBEAGLER
OK Now that there is a book written on this subject, Joe would you please give a one sentence summary of each term, guess I am slow but to this poor dumb redneck seems I am reading a lot of doubletalk and just debate over the same terms saying the same thing.
1. swinging
2. cutting
3. drifting
4. skirting
5. cheating
6. weaving
7. reaching
8. gambling
If I missed any you may add them, but remember, just a short one sentence answer
Thanks in advance.
1. swinging
2. cutting
3. drifting
4. skirting
5. cheating
6. weaving
7. reaching
8. gambling
If I missed any you may add them, but remember, just a short one sentence answer
Thanks in advance.
MSBeagler:
Swining: Casting out too far and too soon from the last pont of contact without first making an attempt to regain scent near the loss.
Cutting: ?
cut and slash: Swinging and swaying, weaving across the line, skirting, over running, thus makeing unnecessary checks.
Drifting: aimlessly casting at checks without method.
skirting: purposely leaving the trail in an attempt to gain a lead or avoid a hazardous cover or avoid hard work. It is cutting out and around true trailing mates in an attempt to intercept the trail ahead.
skirter: A hound jealously running wide of the pack.
Cheating: to behave dishonestly.
weaving: to move side to side actross the line of scent.
reaching: leaving check too far or omiting part of the line.
Gambling: Taking a risk in order to gain some advantage.
Anchored: unable to move ahead on the line.
babbling: Opening when not on the trail.
Back tracking: following the line in the reverse direction:
check: a temporary loss of line. Failure to get scent ahead.
cold trailing: Opening on old scent left the previous noght or hours earlier.
fault: poor technique. Undesireable trait indicateing lack of quality.
flighty: uncertain, changeable, in either hounds or scent.
Ghost runner: hound running imaginary line of scent.
heeler: poor searcher.
overrun: when hounds do not check or stop when they no longer scent the line.
pottereing: dwelling to long on scent without progress. lack of effort or desire to make foreward progress.
raceing: hounds trying to lead by foot work instead of nose work.
rough: an overly competitive hound. over running, swinging, leaving gaps.
wide: overrrubnning at turns and checks.
These should serve as a starter anyway.
Swining: Casting out too far and too soon from the last pont of contact without first making an attempt to regain scent near the loss.
Cutting: ?
cut and slash: Swinging and swaying, weaving across the line, skirting, over running, thus makeing unnecessary checks.
Drifting: aimlessly casting at checks without method.
skirting: purposely leaving the trail in an attempt to gain a lead or avoid a hazardous cover or avoid hard work. It is cutting out and around true trailing mates in an attempt to intercept the trail ahead.
skirter: A hound jealously running wide of the pack.
Cheating: to behave dishonestly.
weaving: to move side to side actross the line of scent.
reaching: leaving check too far or omiting part of the line.
Gambling: Taking a risk in order to gain some advantage.
Anchored: unable to move ahead on the line.
babbling: Opening when not on the trail.
Back tracking: following the line in the reverse direction:
check: a temporary loss of line. Failure to get scent ahead.
cold trailing: Opening on old scent left the previous noght or hours earlier.
fault: poor technique. Undesireable trait indicateing lack of quality.
flighty: uncertain, changeable, in either hounds or scent.
Ghost runner: hound running imaginary line of scent.
heeler: poor searcher.
overrun: when hounds do not check or stop when they no longer scent the line.
pottereing: dwelling to long on scent without progress. lack of effort or desire to make foreward progress.
raceing: hounds trying to lead by foot work instead of nose work.
rough: an overly competitive hound. over running, swinging, leaving gaps.
wide: overrrubnning at turns and checks.
These should serve as a starter anyway.
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pj
first i need to know what do you call drifting....my pup when he loses the rabbit from that point of loss he makes a circle probly of 20 to 25 yards and eventually if he has to come back to the point of loss but he is a swinger....the 6 year old dog just hasnt had the right break yet as a first isnt easy to get at all...
pj: See drifting above. Your pup from your description is a swinger. But, he is only the second hound I've herd of that approaches checks in the same exact fashion as you describe. That is swings out for one loop and then comes back to the pont of loss when the line is not found. The other was about 8 years ago at a field trial and I beleive that hound won the trial because even though his method was faulty he accomplished the most. Now understand the use of the word faulty in that sentance. Even though he accomplished the most (that day) his method was faulty in that had he gone right to the point of loss first he would have accomplished even more quicker. The hound is smart enough to know that if his gamble doesn't pay off immediatly he MUST get right back to the point of loss or else a loss may occur. He's cheating actually but has probably found that he can put it to a slower hound with that cheating method WHEN HE GETS LUCKY. Just add up all the times he wastes while swinging and then ask yourself if he would not be better off if he would just come straight back to the pont of loss FIRST. Upon careful examination you'll find that he would really cut the time lost down if he first came back to the point of loss. Your pup certainly is not a drifter because he does have a definant method to his searching. Hard to fault a swinger with such method but the fact still remains he would be even better if he didn't swing, no matter how good he is now. The initial thought will be to think that he's only wasteing seconds on that one swing especially if one thinks in terms of good scenting days BUT add those seconds up and you get menutes and keep adding.
Bev: I reckon cutting and skirting are the same then except we use skirting to describe both going around difficult terrain and for leaving the line to get in front of pack mates.
Bev: I reckon cutting and skirting are the same then except we use skirting to describe both going around difficult terrain and for leaving the line to get in front of pack mates.
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snowshoehareguide
- Posts: 393
- Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2002 7:52 pm
- Location: brownington vermont
new bad fault.
couldnt catch my dogs the other nite. left snowmobile with dog box attached. . next morning found miss daisy curled up on snowmobile. not in the box. in the seat where she dug a perfect nest in my snowmobile seat at least 6 inches deep . joe add this to your list of faults. . all these other faults once somebody shoots that hare will be forgotten but ill be reminded of this one every time i sit on or look at my snowmobile. pete
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MSBEAGLER
PRIVATE@AOL
Thanks Joe--have to agree with allCUTTING-to take short cut to get to front of pack, leaving line and racing ahead.
You kinda of listed the faults in a simple and easy to follow format.
Got one more week of gun season here, so stay warm and keep all that SNOW way up north.
snowshoehareguide: The fault was yours and not the hounds. She was after the spot with your scent on it. Next time leave the box with your tee shirt in it and you'll find her right where you want her.
pj: I ahve to admit that 60% is a bit higher then I would have thought. But still that leaves 40% where time is wasted at the least because of those times when the check is found on the swing a certain number of them may have been found quicker at the point of loss and so you see the wasted time can go up. Of course non of this means your hound is no good it only points out where the hound could be improved.
pj: I ahve to admit that 60% is a bit higher then I would have thought. But still that leaves 40% where time is wasted at the least because of those times when the check is found on the swing a certain number of them may have been found quicker at the point of loss and so you see the wasted time can go up. Of course non of this means your hound is no good it only points out where the hound could be improved.
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sam
I have only started hunting rabbits this season so I do not know alot about it yet. I have only hunted with some dogs I bought this year and
with a friend that has hunted for years. I thought he had some goods until
Chris said that checks much longer than 10 seconds were not liked very
much. WE hunt mostly in swamps and much of the time I am standing in
water well above my ankles and our checks very seldom 10sec. lots of the
time the checks are in the minute range, but even when not in water the checks are longer than 10 sec. Is 10 sec. the norm. If so our dogs are not as good as I thought.
with a friend that has hunted for years. I thought he had some goods until
Chris said that checks much longer than 10 seconds were not liked very
much. WE hunt mostly in swamps and much of the time I am standing in
water well above my ankles and our checks very seldom 10sec. lots of the
time the checks are in the minute range, but even when not in water the checks are longer than 10 sec. Is 10 sec. the norm. If so our dogs are not as good as I thought.
Sam, if you kill rabbits over your dogs, they come when they're called and they don't run deers on you, your dogs are probably just fine. This thread is a splitting-hairs contest about style so don't get sucked into it too far. If your hounds accomplish to suit you, don't send them down the road just yet. 
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pj
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bowhunter59
- Posts: 303
- Joined: Sun Dec 15, 2002 10:26 am
- Location: tenn