White River dogs?

merv · Post by **merv** » Thu May 26, 2005 12:57 pm

I see alot of these dogs in the magazines. How do they run and what are some of your opinions if any?

BILL HALL · Post by **BILL HALL** » Thu May 26, 2005 1:46 pm

GOOD RUNNERS I THOUGHT THEY SWING ON LINE ALOT THE ONES I SEEN DID THEIR WERE A COUPLE THAT DIDNT MED FAST

Alabama John · Post by **Alabama John** » Thu May 26, 2005 6:35 pm

I didn't like the pups I bought.
They were too clumsy and never got over it. Gave them away. Fought like pit bulls too.

Surely I just got two bad apples.

Jake · Post by **Jake** » Thu May 26, 2005 7:49 pm

merv-
It is hard to answer your question directly. There are several different people breeding "White River Dogs". All of them originated from a cross made by Dale Prunty of Shinnston, WV between GRCH HBCH Fire River Michael and CH HBCH White River Lulu. This cross has produced at least 24 hunting beagle champions. From there, several different people have taken off in different directions breeding these dogs. So, depending on which dogs you are talking about, there are several different styles of dogs in this bloodline. If you tell me which particular hounds/crosses you are talking about, I can give you all the info you need, or put you in contact with someone who knows more about them than I do.

Alabama John-
What was the pedigree on the pups you are speaking of? Just curious.
Jake Teter

Alabama John · Post by **Alabama John** » Thu May 26, 2005 8:14 pm

Jake

They were two females out of Dale's Tuff Champion and one of his UKC brood females.
I'm not sore about it at all, that's the chance you take with pups. I wouldn't make it twice though.

I felt the man deserved an honest straight answer.

JimmyJohnson · Post by **JimmyJohnson** » Thu May 26, 2005 9:57 pm

Alabama John sorry too hear about your pups that didnt turn out....I have a dog out of tough that's real nice she's 15 months old and need only a few points to finish as well. I know of several pups that are already finished out of him too.....That's the truth about buying pups though,,,ya never know. Its a chance we all take...

Alabama John · Post by **Alabama John** » Thu May 26, 2005 10:24 pm

Jimmy

We can't and shouldn't give all the blame or credit good or bad to the stud Tuff.

There was a White River female in this equation too and I believe the female is 60-70 % of what you get.

Might be Tuff is totally innocent!

Good looking female you have for your avator.

Post by **Bev** » Fri May 27, 2005 1:16 pm

We are real happy with our White River hound. He's by Tuff-E-Nuff and out of Sinnett's Molly (who's by Spicer's Blueback). He's blessed with speed, can get a little rough at times, but needs no help hunting up and circling a rabbit on his own.

CT BLUES WHITE RIVER TUFF LUCK.

Incahoots · Post by **Incahoots** » Fri May 27, 2005 3:09 pm

I run White River but I wont touch a dog out of Dales stuff. Before someone gets offended the proof is in the pudding. I've seen his stuff and most I wouldn't feed. I like to run a powerhouse in the big hunts and the other side of White River is throwing much much better dogs. Those that go to the hunts know who is bring the heat in the White River dept and who isn't. I guess if you breed a stud to every female that comes in heat eventually you'll get a couple of good dogs for hunts.

HALLELUJAH KENNELS · Post by **HALLELUJAH KENNELS** » Fri May 27, 2005 3:37 pm

I have a dog out of Dale's Tuff dog. He is less than two and is doing great. I have a female puppy that is looking great. I agree that you have at least two distinct lines of White River dogs. Dales side is more conservative and The side that Mitch and group is running seems to be on the wilder side. Both sides can win and despite what Incoherant thinks both sides have some positive things about them. As far as breeding to bunches of females I suggest you check out the number of White River dogs that are on the ground on your side of the fence Incoherant. I like whats flowing out of the White River. The dogs seem to Jump rabbits better than average. The one consistant slam I see is that most don't work a check from the inside. Mine checks WIDE and if he can't get it out in the wild blue yonder he comes back in. But I love him. I have won My Cast at a super slam, and the eliminator and lost to eventual top ten placers. I have held him back from competition trying to let him mature more. In his last three hunts he has won three cast and taken a first. Mitch is crossing his dogs with a lot of different lines, Branko etc. Check out both sides and you will see some great dogs, inspite of a few bitter individuals opinion both sides can win.
Dave Smith
Hallelujah Kennels

Incahoots · Post by **Incahoots** » Fri May 27, 2005 4:43 pm

lol Nice slam. Made me giggle a bit. Now Mr one post wonder you're generalization of Mitchs side couldn't any further off. First off I can call Dale right now and buy a pup, try calling Mitch and buying one. Cane alone only has 2 litters oldest just turned a year old other isn't even 2 months old.

Dales dogs being conseravtive is a joke, right? I had one in a cast a few months ago miss every line... That dog was over 2 yr old. The complaints I hear all the time about White River turns up to be out of Tuff 99% of the time. I'd list names with complaints but that wouldn't be right without peoples permission. Kinda gets old people saying how they don't like White River from past or present experience. Then having to explain why the dog I'm handling is White River but the reason it runs the way it does is cause it's not what they had.

Not sure where you're located but I'm betting I see more Tuff dogs then you see out of Jake/Cane. Everyone around me has Tuff pups so once again who is breeding to every female in heat? Far as I know no one within 2 hrs of me is handling anything out of Jake/Cane. Care to confirm that for me?

I'd expect to see more dogs out of Tuff leading the pedigree with so many crosses. Why is that just not the case?

Sorry if you feel I'm bitter. I assure you I'm not. I have no dealings with Dale not in the past nor present. If describing what I see in dogs I run against or sharing common complaints is being bitter... I guess we all are then, yes? Congrats on your wins maybe you got a good one if so enjoy it.

john j · Post by **john j** » Fri May 27, 2005 9:13 pm

i do agree with one thing they miss lines beacause they swing real bad i had one in my cast that had a serious swinging problem actually seen alot of white river breeding dogs do this.

JimmyJohnson · Post by **JimmyJohnson** » Fri May 27, 2005 10:48 pm

I think Dale is trying to produce a cleaner and showy type dog via Tuff. Dale Really likes his Tuff dog and wants to produce his type. That dosent make Dale wrong or bad to deal with in anyway. Micheal and Lulu bred dogs fight for the front and some of the males out of that cross dont have to fight for it very often because they usualy own it. Its really a matter of preference guys thats all. I like those Micheal and Lulu dogs alot......They win big and win often we cant ignore that. I plan to breed my tuff dog to a Micheal and Lulu Male as soon as I get her finished she just needs a first. She isnt conservative at all she wants the front and hammers when she has it...I too have sacraficed some lines because of her competitive drive.
Solo time is tightening her up just enough to stay in front. Incahoots has some realy nice dogs out of Mitch Goulds Cane I saw a few of his videos and know hes done some winning. The Guys that run and currently breed white River dogs are very competitve with each other. They may argue among them selves and trhow each other under the bus from time to time but I think its all in the spirit of being a competitor. I've met most of them and really like all of them. They've got some very good dogs and all seem to consistanly win.....If your intersted in a white river dog I would encourage you to go hunt with a few of theses guys and pick the type of dog you think you could be consistantly competitive with what ever your likes or dislikes may be take a look.

WHITR RIVER TUFF COOKIE

whiteriver · Post by **whiteriver** » Sun May 29, 2005 6:32 pm

i dont like this post very well but i see my name in it quite a bit so i will comment : FEED AND BREED WHAT U LIKE

we all started out running hounds out of michael and lulu and did EXTREMELY well with them from their we have bred for our own flavor , me and my group of guys like a hard hitting hound and maybe some others like slower hounds that stay closer ,nothing wrong with THAT either , and some of my crosses do throw some tremendous line control instead of speed

we are very proud of what we have won/produced ,in matter of time jake will be pushing 20 HBCH while only being selectively bred, over half finishing as one year olds AND most all of them finishing in big hunts not little hunts , currently we have 3 dogs leading the challenge series against some great competition and we feel fortunate for that:
HBCH CH WHITE RIVER DIXIELAND DELIGHT (dixie X jake)
HBCH WHITE RIVER ROLLING THUNDER ( spade X jake) linbred
HBCH WHITE RIVER RED WINE ( spade X jake ) linebred

I do encourage those of you that think u know white river dogs to look a little deeper , some of those crosses are watered down , the michael lulu cross was like the cream of a donut and the farther u get away from that cream the less sweet it tatses

thanks to everyone who has bred to jake or cane or bought/handled a pup and to those who want to criticize our "side" of the line(as u call it ) that is okay too cause that is part of it i take no offense and i doubt very seriously if the "other " side does either lolololololololol
there are a lot of great lines out their we are the first to admit that the key is to be objective

thanks,
mitch gould
white river beagles

p.s. kennel blindness is the only real ignorance

john j · Post by **john j** » Mon May 30, 2005 10:30 am