Speed verses Medium speed with line control

klrconcrete · Post by **klrconcrete** » Thu Apr 28, 2005 8:50 pm

Speed is not a bad thing-- when the line control doesnt suffer I think the speed becomes more important to stroke the owners ego.

bun-e-chaser · Post by **bun-e-chaser** » Thu Apr 28, 2005 11:00 pm

I agree with McCoy. Alot depends on where you live and what you are running, cottontails, hare, swampers, etc. A good medium speed dog with line control can keep cottontail circling for hours. Here where I run the rabbits are conditioned due to me running so much. I have big woods rabbits that will stay up for hours and circle with medium speed dogs running them. I have 3 faster dogs, that have less line control and they are doing good to keep the same rabbits up for 30 min. Too much pressure and the rabbit holes.

TomMN · Post by **TomMN** » Fri Apr 29, 2005 1:12 am

I have learned the same thing John mentioned..........
"Fast dogs can run with fewer loses or checks as a rabbit running fast with dogs right on its tail can't pull its tricks so it is easier to run and the scent is stronger and fresher."

I hunt all winter in Minnesota. Last winter I ran rabbits (mostly hare) in weather down to -30 degrees. My fastest dog is also the one my friends and I killed the most rabbits in front of. On hare, a medium speed dog that slows down when it gets tough will be running old tracks with very little scent all day. A GOOD fast dog will get up close to a rabbit sooner or later and make you think scenting conditions realy aren't that bad after all.

briarshaker · Post by **briarshaker** » Fri Apr 29, 2005 7:14 am

Speed Or Line control Has Nothing To Do with it. If the Dog has a brain he can run a rabbit at what ever speed the conditions will alow. If it did not have enough brains to run a fast track when possible or slow down to a walk if nessiry to keep a race going then i would not own it. A good smart hound will learn what it takes to run a rabbit and try to please his owner. you would be suprised how many dogs place in trails that can not circle a rabbit when ran solo. A good line running dog with gears and brains will also be able to work out the check for you. To many dogs with just two gears [stop and smell or run like H] out there. Or have line between there feet and not run a track 30ft in a hour. I thank if you can't hunt a dog you should not be placing in trials with that dog. Brairshaker's DAD

Clyde Gott · Post by **Clyde Gott** » Fri Apr 29, 2005 2:08 pm

Brairshaker's DAD:

“If the Dog has a brain he can run a rabbit at what ever speed the conditions will allow.”

Sir, you have hit the nail on the head!

Take care and keep’em running…

akcbg · Post by **akcbg** » Fri Apr 29, 2005 2:59 pm

i have to agree with roy passmore, i have owned both and the fast ones swing or give up in the ck.

Ga. Beagler · Post by **Ga. Beagler** » Fri Apr 29, 2005 4:50 pm

I have to have line control here in South Ga. to compete at all in field trials The judges will pick a dog up quick if he gets ahead of the other dogs and runs over a track. Medium speed with good line control is the only thing that will place down here. But you go to North Ga. and they'll let the dogs stroll in the same format. I am new to field trialing and this is something that I haven't been able to understand. Are AKC trials this different all over or just here. I personally like the medium speed hounds with good line control and have never had a problem shooting rabbits in front of them, but I like beagles period. I have seen field champions down here that would not have even placed in Indiana. Anyone have any answers?

Incahoots · Post by **Incahoots** » Fri Apr 29, 2005 5:34 pm

Check work has nothing to do with speed of the dog notta zelch. If it's in their blood and they aren't sticking on checks then it's the handlers fault. Yeah I know everyone solos their dog or like to say they do anyhow. I find very few people solo a dog like it should be but they all say they do.

Robert W. Mccoy Jr · Post by **Robert W. Mccoy Jr** » Fri Apr 29, 2005 5:49 pm

I respectfully disagree with that.

In my opinion.

Fast hare breed dogs and medium speed cottontail dogs have two completly differant styles of running.

Incahoots · Post by **Incahoots** » Fri Apr 29, 2005 6:28 pm

You can disagree but the proof is in the pudding. My dogs run fast and will stick a check hard and work a check as if it's dire that it be found 30 sec ago. The dog in my avatar will out check most anything he runs with reguardless of speed. He has insane line control even when he turns on the heat to top speed he can follow a line through a 90 degree turn with no over running. Yeah I know it's hard to believe a fast dog can hold a line really tight but proof is in the pudding. The thing is his ability has nothing to do with his speed. It's all nose and brains. A slower dogs hides it's lack of traits as it doesn't have to depend on all it's traits as much as a fast dog.

In a list of traits I can't fantom how speed of a dog determines it's check abilities mainly cause it doesn't.

Robert W. Mccoy Jr · Post by **Robert W. Mccoy Jr** » Fri Apr 29, 2005 7:14 pm

Sounds like you have a great hound. What blood line is he out of.

I would like to see a pedigree on that dog.

Let me ask you this, does he slow down in bad conditions. Or can he keep up that fast speed in bad conditions on a cottontail when all the other dogs have to slow down.

mike crabtree · Post by **mike crabtree** » Fri Apr 29, 2005 7:24 pm

I want a dog to run as FAST or slow as he can or has to according to conditions.
Having said that, the fastest dog I have owned was also the best check dog. Im not buying the medium speed dogs are better check dogs.
If a dog is running slower than upper medium it shouldnt have any checks.

blackdirt beagles · Post by **blackdirt beagles** » Fri Apr 29, 2005 7:26 pm

id take an upper medium speed dog anyday over a "windsplitter". just seems like you get more consistant and smoother races. i think a speed of 7 (out of 10) is just about perfect for most all the conditions i encounter here in IL. ive run with a few and owned a couple of what i call 9's and in general the 7's were more consistant and "complete" dogs.

Incahoots · Post by **Incahoots** » Fri Apr 29, 2005 7:41 pm

Here is his pedigree http://www.espomagazine.com/pedigrees/564.htm

He can slow down if needed but will maintain the highest tempo he can. He will turn the heat on anytime he can on a line even in really bad conditions. It amazes me sometimes how he can keep a rabbit going and going without losing it. He'll work the line head up when he can or drop head to ground when needed. I use to think when he'd run head up sometimes he was "me too'n" untill I seen him catch sharp turns on the line when the other dogs would over run time after time. He just turned 1 yr I can't wait till he's 3!

Robert W. Mccoy Jr · Post by **Robert W. Mccoy Jr** » Fri Apr 29, 2005 7:53 pm

Sounds like a good one.

Mike,

LOL I'm not trying to sell it to yeah. Heck as I said I don't condsider my self the authority on beagles. I am just saying out of the dogs I have owned and seen over the last 15 years or so. I am having better races now in bad conditions with these upper medium speed dogs than I ever had with any other type (in a pack) on cottontail.

Im not buying the medium speed dogs are better check dogs.
If a dog is running slower than upper medium it shouldnt have any checks.