What's your definition of a "Brood" female??

[mybeagles]

Newt,

If you do a little homework to find a quality breeder raising the style hound you favor and you have to repeat 4-5 times to get a good rabbit dog I would suggest looking at your training methods. Superstars are hard to come by but that's what makes them special. Only a select few have the time and patience to endlessly pursue superstars. Most well bred pups if given the time on ground turn into more than adequate rabbit dogs that can easily be sold for 2-3X puppy price if the rare superstar is what your after.

I realize I'm changing the general focus of the thread, but if someone is content to buy pups off someone's backyard ,"brood bitch" they get what they deserve. They didn't do their homework. It's no different than anything else you purchase in life...if you don't look into what your buying your at the mercy of your impulses. BTW if a brood bitch comes from a quality line of hounds I suspect most if not all of the pups will make decent rabbit dogs for the average hunter IF they will invest the time into them that first year. Vast majority will not invest the time so its irrelevant. Pups out of the most productive crosses of all time get purchased and left in a kennel never to amount to anything.

I've talked with some knowledgeable, successful beaglers that would prefer to get a pup from a gyp with impressive pedigree than from a great gyp in the field from an unknown pedigree. I can see the logic of both....the X factor to me boils
Down to how much time you invest into the pup and my goal is always to get all I can out of a dog and that generally works out for me to be a pretty good dog. I guess I don't view the brood bitch breeders in as negative a light as I do the breeders of field trial champions that are nearly worthless for rabbit hunting with and this is far more wide spread than the brood bitch problem,,.

[Shady Grove Beagles]

mybeagles
Another well though out post !!

[Newt]

"I don't view the brood bitch breeders in as negative a light as I do the breeders of field trial champions that are nearly worthless for rabbit hunting with and this is far more wide spread than the brood bitch problem.

As the politician said, I totally agree with this message.

[Hare Chaser]

........on the other hand I have much admiration for the guys that compete in the trials placing or winning often AND pleasure hunt the same dogs.

[mybeagles]

Plenty of bad ones on both sides of the fence....the big advantage the field trial dogs have is being run on a regular basis. All dogs perform better when given adequate attention.

[likeemfast]

All dogs perform better when given adequate attention.

Dave, that statement is so true but its also a double edge sword, IMO

A hound that runs deer.............................................. learns to find em quicker
A hound with no hunt................................................ gets better at cocking its head side to side on the path listening for one to open
A hound that babbles endlessly on cold trail.....................does more so with more running

on the plus side

A fair hound............................................................ can become decent
A decent hound........................................................ can become good
But greatness i believe is in them from the beginning, and yes, they need the opportunities to hone their craft

[S.R.Patch]

Curious to know what most of you classify a brood female to be?

I think what puts a bitch in the "brood" class is. she is family bred, meets your standard and has proven to produce at or above your requirements in the majority of her offspring. An old friend of mine Mike Yates told me, "If you find a related pair that nick, lock them up together and get all that they will give you. From this volume, you select the best and breed them back into the line and look for the improvement. It is not the "one cross" success only by percentage, but those resulting from that cross that can pass it on to the family, that will guarantee continuation and strength in type.
Most proven brood bitches of this caliber are not sold outside of a family circle of breeders, for who would not want to reinforce their hounds with one who is predisposed to pass on family type? jmho

[Pine Lakes]

Well said Patch.

[S.R.Patch]

Thank you, and a Merry Christmas to you and yours.

[warddog]

I agree Patch. Years ago I had several rabbit hunting guys that I worked with killing many, many rabbits and we could not find a rabbit dog worth having in our area. I had even bought several from the president of the local AKC beagle club that trialed, none suited us. They told me about a fella in the little town south of me where they had gotten their rabbit dogs. The kick was that he had some kind of terrier female that he had been crossing with his male beagle and getting some very good rabbit dogs. NOT one or two but most from EVERY litter. He had also crossed her with different males with pretty good success. I got on his WAITING list and finally got a pup. She looked like a lot of other registered beagles that appear to have terrier in them as she had the short ears, a coke bottle nose and mostly white in color BUT man did she start quick and become one of the top rabbit dogs we had ever had. This guy NEVER rabbit hunting this terrier as she was a house dog pet but she could produce rabbit dogs and that is what she did until the day she died. I lost my female at the young of three as she got into some rat poison and died from internally bleeding. She died in the evening of a day in which she ran rabbits all day long. I wished I could get my hands on another or two just like her as I would have put her down with the so called best. Just went to show me that looks and papers don't do the job a dog is supposed to do and that the genetics can match up any time, any place although very, very rare like this situation.

[S.R.Patch]

Ken, many of the terriers in the UK were rat killers. My friend has Jacks and he don't have no trouble with rats or snakes, as a mater of fact, he said she mostly weaned her pups with rabbits she catch. Many squirrel dogs were infused with terrier, my great uncles had them. I think the thing about the terrier, they were predisposed to put hunt and grit in their offspring, just like the the old bluetick coon hound was know for voice and a tender nose. No doubt we see some beagles where the basset influence comes through the benched legs and the heavy folds of skin, Id say the nose and melodious voice was what they were after.