best dog food for trialing dog's ?

[wildcatfan0309]

Your the one trying to tell everybody what to feed.
Not me

[warddog]

Well, we are back onto the subject of the best dog food (for trialing) again and as usual we are getting opinions from many. Some love Purina, some love Victor, some Pro plan and others Diamond naturals and then many, many others do NOT even respond and maybe they understand that not a single one of them will do anything that will give them a leg up for trialing or merely their dogs ability to run the game of which they were bred to do.
I have seen many go to the dog food advisor and see their brand cited on there as being one of the best rated but yet I doubt they have actually researched further into that very site to find out into more depth as to how ALL pet foods are manufactured. I would suggest that the following article be read about exactly what actually goes into the "MEALS" used in pet foods throughout the industry. http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food- ... -dog-food/

This industry is NOT regulated by any governing agency but rather by AAFCO which is nothing more than an Association of Feed Control Officials, ran by those who have a vested interest in the HUGE animal feed business. The meat and or bone meal produced at rendering plants is merely labeled by the predominant meat species within the batch or cook. If, ,like we are seeing with the bird flu and the thousands of chickens dying from it in Iowa, I believe those will probably be taken to a rendering facility and all cooked into a soup at ultra high temperature so as to kill off the virus and then used back into more chicken and or other pet feeds.

I didn't see a single Purina product on the dog food advisor's "BEST" list and when searching into Purina's web site they themselves kick people's claim of NO GRAIN to the curb as they promote the use of grains to up their protein levels. On the other hand Victor claims to use NO GRAIN but yet they have other vegetable/plant matter ingredients. Purina also shows articles for documentation of their theory on how dogs and wolves differ in dietary needs in that they are clearly not the same and that is what prompts their manufacturing processes as well as THEIR formulations, which are many combinations of basically the same raw ingredients. Check it out and you will definitely see that Purina's theory on grain use and Victor's are not the same but yet both use some kind of plant/vegetable ingredients and not solely MEAT MEALS.

I can say from over 30 years of seeing exactly what goes to rendering facilities from every type of human food animal processing plant that NOT one single drop of meat that is suited for human consumption goes to a rendering plant. What I have seen is offal such as liver, hearts and kidneys sold to pet food manufacturers that have been harvested specifically for them at a discount price from what would go into the human food chain. What I have also seen is ALL of the other stuff from the slaughter and or processing of human meat and poultry food products go into the VERY SAME rendering company truck on it's rounds to restaurants, grocery stores, farms to pick up dead, dying animals, shelters on euthanasia day and slaughter/processing facilities. These food processing plants used to get paid by the pound BY THE rendering companies for ALL this stuff according to exactly what they had separated such as bones, fat, meat and bone etc.but now days they have to pay to have it hauled off so they do NOT even separate the STUFF.

What folks prefer is a matter of opinion in their personal situation but for me I totally understand what goes into all animal feeds including back to chickens, cows, sheep, hogs etc and ALL the meat comes from all the STUFF that is not fit for human consumption cooking to ultra high temperatures above boiling temperature of 212 degrees into a meal or powder. I also know they ALL will have vegetable, plant or grains in them and ALL these are also what is not fit for human consumption and are byproducts of foods that were. So knowing that ALL pet foods are composed of stuff not fit for human consumption I prefer to feed what I see maintains my dogs in good flesh for the best possible price I can find. I also understand that the feed I feed them will not produce one more rabbit or trophy if it meets the minimum AAFCO nutritional parameters. I have a neighbor who is still into competition coon hunting at the age of 70 and we just had this conversation a few weeks ago. I asked him what he feed to keep his dogs in top competition shape and he told me he bought whatever he could get at a salvage store that sold ALL different brands of damaged dog food. He showed me a stack of about 500 pounds of dog food that he had stacked up on a pallet that was a combination of many different brands as well as proteins from puppy chow to adult formulations. He said I just mix it all together in this big container and feed it. He has won some big coon hunts and still remains competitive so I doubt it has anything to do with what he feeds. Them big ole English dogs he hunts sure look nice too and he still carries them all over the country competition hunting them so I guess he doesn't put much stock in the power of the feed over the power of the individual dog!

[johns03272008]

Your the one trying to tell everybody what to feed.
Not me

Im not telling anyone what to feed simply wanting to give facts to people that obviously don't know better and want to k ow why someone who loves running dogs so much would want to continue to buy from a company who supports HSUS and Peta? Is that telling people what they should feed?

[transman63]

(Diamond Extreme Athlete) has anyone used these dog food ?

[HBmudbug]

I have fed it all! VICTOR all the way.

[BB Beagles]

Wardog, we know you absolutely love these dog food post. Your background and time in the food industry probably did give you a awful lot of knowledge of what goes into not only dog food but our food as well. No one is saying or denying what you've stated all these dog food companies do and use. The thing is "yes" it is all dry dog food, is it meant to fill your dogs nutrient values? Suppose to. Here's the thing though, they are not all the same and dogs react diff to diff kinds of feed. Propaganda and marketing has a big affect on dog food sales as well. Fancy bags, TV commercials, sponsoring hunts, hats, jackets, stickers, etc.. That's fine, but people need to find a feed that fits there hounds the best.

You stated in your post of your neighbor who runs competition coon hounds. He buys from the salvage store and damaged food and mixes it all together. Well that food could be out of date, molded, be full of mouse and rat feces. So I take it that is actually worse than what we are feeding right from the store. I'm just confused a lil cause this big post of "not fit for human consumption" but yet brag on neighbor feeding dog food that stores would not even sale on shelf. But if he's happy with it and dogs perform and hold up well that's fine. I guess?

No, there is nota special kind of feed that is going give your dog super trialing powers, but there are feeds out there that hounds will hold up better on. I have fed Purina in the past, which is prob one of the biggest known brands out there. My hounds did ok on it but some liked it some didn't. Purina also has 20 some odd plants in the U.S. not counting there over seas operations. So I say ya no telling where and what the get to put in there feed. When I really started looking for a better feed I found Victor. They have one manufacturing plant in Texas and get all there product to make there feed within a 150 radius of the plant, except for the lamb, which it comes from New Zealand because they don't use shots on them over there. The highly active formula I feed is 24-20, which the 30-20,21-10, have all the same ingredients but the portion is diff in each. It is corn, soy, and gluten free. They use sorghum millet mix which does not spike your blood sugar like corn does.

The best food for trialing dogs is trial and error feed. You have find one that dogs perform and hold up better on. To me that is Victor dog food. Not unless it changes I will feed it.

[warddog]

BB do you think that ALL the ingredients in dry dog food is kept free of mice, rats, their excrements, flies, maggots and or other insects? What regulations define what is a so-called out-of-date product? Facts are that human foods approved by the FDA have limits of how many rat, mouse hairs, feces and insect parts are ALLOWED in a product. Grains and vegetable matter being stored for animal use is a lot of times dumped out on the ground and allowed to mold and rot. It is the stuff that is used when it can NOT be used for products for human consumption. That does for ALL the vegetable ingredients as well. The regulation for a shelf life for HUMAN food products is NOT regulated by the government but it is what the individual producers determines it to be. Also there is actually NO REQUIREMENT that red meat even have the original date of slaughter or manufacture but poultry products do require that original date of slaughter be maintained on the consumer size package. I have seen tons of expired red meat products repackaged and the date they did so applied as the date on the package. Many products have internal date codes that the consumer hasn't a clue of what it means other than poultry that has to maintain the original slaughter date BUT it doesn't have to elaborate what it is. ALL of the sell by, best by, freeze by or use by dates are at the discretion of the individual producer. They determine how long they claim it is FRESH for and not how long it is until it is no good. Also the truth is that poultry products right off your grocery store shelf have a pathological bacteria contamination rate of public health concern of about 80%. This can be supported by an independent test performed by Consumer's report not too long ago.

My point in ALL these discussions is merely to point our that NO ONE knows what goes into their pet food and most haven't a clue of what is in their own food. Ever try to go into a big meat or poultry processor and tell them you want to buy their products but wish to see how it is produced before doing so? I'll guarantee you they will NOT let you past the guard house without an appointment and that will probably not get made. I also see the BIG Corporate grainery subsidiary down the road from me that has mountains of unprotected corn, beans etc piled up on the ground out in fields around it during harvest time because there is not enough storage available for it all. I'll also guarantee you that the rendering facilities are NOT what most pet owners would even allow their pets to be around let alone eat from as they are loaded with mice, rats and every other critter and unsanitary condition imaginable AND even those critters that come up dead go into the meal mix.

I've not visited a Victor pet food plant but I have others as well as HUGE Conglomerate grainerys such as Central Soya and I can honestly say not a one of them implemented strict sanitation controls. Mice, rats, birds and insects were prevalent throughout the grounds and this is where the pet food ingredients ALL come from. My biggest question to anyone making the claim that one pet food is superior to another is how exactly is that scientifically known? YES, the big manufacturers spend millions on advertising with all the bells and whistles trying to grab their share or the multibillion dollar business but where is the science that what they produce is one bit better than the next brand. I will agree that not all dogs will react to a specific food the same way as I even see a big difference in mine feeding the same feed BUT that is the individual dog NOT the nutritional value of the feed.

If folks like what they are feeding then by all means they should feed it, as your peace of mind far outweighs the science of the nutritional value behind that specific feed or what is even required for a dogs maintenance. I just don't allow myself to get caught up in all the hype from manufacturers that demand a higher price for the same or even lesser quality products as the next. I prime example is the "ORGANIC" labeled foods now days. Anyone know what makes it "ORGANIC" other than 4 times the price and is it of better quality than the same product not "ORGANIC?"

[S.R.Patch]

This post reminds me of advertizements from many years ago, a lot of money was spent on full page adds and statements saying, "Feed your hound ***** for the winning edge". Now I've ran with some awful fine hounds over the years and not one time when a hound was putting on a show did I ever hear the question, "Man, what have you been feeding that hound!, it's sure put the stuff in him! I feel that if a hound is getting his basic needs, the "stuff" is whats already in the hound, his heart, desire and raw ability. One hound that shall forever be on my "most impressive list" is Cody's Sharpe Mikie. that hound was raw talent and of power not seen by many.
Imho, if you think you must juice the hound up to get what you hope for out of him, you ain't got the right hound to start with. I think Jimmy ran Cody's Jackson up through the ranks a couple of times, I think he could tell you how much of his accomplishments were by the hound and how much was attributed to the food he ate. jmho

[BB Beagles]

Wardog, I'm not disagreeing at all with you or your knowledge of food processing. And yes I do know they deal with mice, rats, birds and other varmints at these factories. I seen a factory one time they made a popular cereal at, and the had a huge rat problem. No, you never know really what we're getting from the store. But I much rather buy a bag of feed that was "supposed " to be turd free, than a bag that was visually clear that varmints have been in it.

And no, this has nothing to do with juicing up there hound to compete. It's bout finding a dry feed that your dog holds up best on. I have close friend who been feeding Ol Roy from Walmart for bout 6 months. His hound placed extremely high at one of our big hunts, but I could feed just a couple servings of it to one of mine and instead of performing, it be bowed up every 100yds, pinching one off. All hounds/ dogs react diff to diff feed. No, the feed will not make the dog, but a good feed will help maintain and keep them balanced.

I once went to the feed mill where I bought Victor feed from. They were completely out except for 1 bag. It had a hole on one side where rodent Chewed through. Bout size of baseball. The reg price on that feed was 31.50. Owner said I'll give it to ya at discount price of 28$. I said for that sac of mouse s--t! Exact words he said was" it might have couple turds in it but even with turds it's the best feed out there"

[warddog]

I'm NOT disagreeing that one specific brand of dog food works well or not so well for one person as there are so many variables when it comes to likes and dislikes. My personal concern is that I get the best bang for my buck meaning that my dogs maintain healthy flesh in the conditions they are exposed to. If my dogs seem to be of the same flesh and actions on a feed in which they may have a little more mess in the kennel than another one that is just like my preference of dogs. Some things I can live with and others I can't. What I can't live with is knowing that I am feeding my animals a feed brand at a cost double another brand and I see absolutely no difference in amount fed, their individual flesh and their ability to do what they were bred to do. I know that all pet foods are the rejects of ingredients that can not be used for sale as human food and if they were they would be sold that way as the manufacturers get A LOT more money for them so they sell these losses for a profit as these things would actually be thrown out or they would have to pay to have them disposed of. I'm not knocking one brand or promoting another as each individual will have to determine what is best for them as there is little to NO regulations on the manufacture of dog foods. In saying that I doubt any of us remotely thought that Diamond dog food, which I fed for a while until my dogs showed poor flesh was importing ingredients from China which is where the melamine came from to boost the protein content of lesser quality meal that poisoned numerous dogs. This didn't happen one time but a couple with Diamond and folks swore that after the first time their quality control would never allow that to happen again. WRONG. Then we have seen aflatoxin become a killer of dogs in popular brands which promoted manufacturers to advertise NO CORN formulas. WELL, I hate to be the bearer of bad news but aflatoxins can occur naturally in the environment and can/do impact any vegetable ingredient especially those that are left overs from the human food chain production. These carcinogens can and do infect vegetable and grain ingredients before during and after harvest including storage at elevators and pet food manufacturing facilities.
I then say to those asking for the best dog food that you should try any and all of them until you find what works well for your dogs, your time and your wallet as there is very little difference among most of the popular brands other than price and even those manufacturers are at the discretion of the manufacturer of the ingredients they buy or use in their manufacturing process.

[Shady Grove Beagles]

Warddog
Thank you for your last several posts as I read them with interest and some understanding as I've had some very interesting experiences when it comes to feeding hounds over many years.
I agree with you when you say that a man should feed whatever his dogs seem to do best on at a price he can afford.So many of these dog food brands are regionaly limited and are not available everywhere.A lot of guys on here raving about Victor and I've never heard of it except on these posts and have never seen it anywhere around here.Others love Pride and I understand that the main ingredient in that food is"porcine meal" which if I'm not mistaken is another word for pig meat.I've never heard of Pride being sold around these parts or know of anybody around here that uses it.In fact I've got a vet book here that states that pork isn't a very good feed for canines.
When I was a young kid in the early 60's we used to buy horse meat from old doc Kelton our veterinarian.When he had a horse to put down he'd haul them back to his place,shoot em then grind them up in an industrial meat grinder he had out in his garage.He'd pack that ground horse meat in coffee cans and keep it in an old freezer on his front porch.My dad use to buy it to feed our beagle and retriever.I remember when you could even buy a can of horse meat canned dog food in the grocery store.Can you imagine how politically incorrect that would be today? People would be screaming.Yet where do folks think all those old plugs should go?
In the early 70's when I first moved up in the mountains of New Hampshire I was looking to buy some tree dogs.Folks told me I needed to cross the river into Vermont and go see Leet Ware who was an oldtime bear and cat hunter.I got directions to his place at the little post office in Thetford.When I pulled into his yard it was about 10 degrees out and I found this white haired old fellow in shirt sleeves cutting up a big old Holstein cow with a chainsaw and throwing sections of it over the fence to his hounds.As we visited I noticed that in one pen there was a half eaten horse's head that a litter of Walker pups was working on.
I asked Leet if he fed dog chow and he said "yes, in the warm weather I do but in the winter I feed meat". And by meat he meant cows,calves,horses,road kill deer.I asked what he fed for chow in the summer and he said "what ever I get a good deal on".
One time when I was at the fur buyer's selling coon hides I asked him if he knew Leet Ware.He told me that years before he had gone to Leet's to buy several bobcat pelts and when he got there Leet was skinning out two cats he had taken that morning with his hounds.The fur buyer said that when Leet peeled the hides off the cats he then threw the carcasses over the fence in the dog lot and the hounds proceeded to consume them!
Leet and his brother Willard kept about 20 big hounds between them and they knew every farmer in the Upper Valley and whenever someone had a cow go down ,calf born dead or a plug horse they'd go get it for dog feed.
Their hounds always looked good and had plenty of stamina to trail a bear all day and go again the next day and throughout the season.
I use to go down to Georgia to visit and coon hunt with an old man who kept Bluetick hounds and always had a bird dog around too.Robert had two stoves in his kitchen; one was for Miss Agnes to cook meals on and the other was for Robert to cook big trays of cornbread and cracklings to feed his hounds.Every morning Robert would cook those hounds up there daily feed.I asked him if he fed dog chow and he said not very often,that he'd fed his hounds and bird dogs that way all his life and figured it was good enough for them.I can honestly say that they seemed to thrive on it as he always had a dozen or so dogs on the place every time I was there and every one of them would hunt the swamps all night or point you birds all morning.
Friend of mine who I stay with when I hare hunt up in northern Maine spent a year up in Alaska working for one of the Iditarod mushers feeding,working/conditioning and caring for over 100 sled dogs.He said all those dogs ever got to eat was fish/salmon.David and the musher would net all the salmon they could and dry it.In the winter they'd reconstitute it with hot water in a 55 gal .barrel and each dog would get a big ladel of fish mush for dinner.A hundred miles pulling a sled on snow was a conditioning run for them in winter and in the summer David would hook them up to an ATV with the motor off and in neutral and let them pull him for 25 miles.Strength and stamina on that diet for sure.
I'm always hearing folks say that you should never feed table scraps.Well,I grew up watching my Dad feed scraps along with their kibble and I've done it my whole life too.Anything that comes off our table or stove that the people aren't going to eat the dogs get it mixed in with their chow if they'll eat it and believe me my hounds will eat most anything!! Does it make them loose?Sure, sometimes.Sometimes what my wife serves me makes me loose too.LOL. Truth be told, I just can't get all concerned about stools.It's dog crap,one way or another I've got to shovel it or hose it.......
When I use to raise my own meat for the freezer,at butchering time I'd always boil up the hearts,livers,kidneys and tongues and mix them in with the hound's chow.They loved it and always did well on it.Most of my hounds also enjoy stuff from the garden such as corn,green beans,tomatos and water mellon.
I've got friends who can and do feed their hounds the top of the line expensive dry chow.Most of it selling for more than a dollar a pound and some of it considerably more and I think everybody should feed whatever the want.It's their dogs after all.I've basically fed Purina Dog Chow for probably 50 years now and as I've said I augment it with other stuff and that system works just fine for me.Bottom line is that when I run with the guys that feed chows that are costing almost double what I'm paying I don't see their hounds out running,out lasting,going faster or further than my hounds??????
I think if you're going for the gold and trying to run the circuit every weekend and really pushing your hound to the extreme with training all week and competition,etc. then you'll probably need every edge you can get and some high octane/$ feed can probably help get you there.
I do happen to think that the over all pet food market has lost touch with reality and that they are roping people in with all of this very slick advertising that your dog is actually eating the same quality of ingredients that you might be served when you and your wife go out for Sunday dinner.
They make it sound as if your not feeding ol Fido like some sort of gourmet food then you are totally doing a member of your family a dis-service .Heck,I don't get to eat steak,salmon,duck,chunks of white meat chicken,etc. everyday.Sometimes I eat a PB and J or a bowl of cereal and call it good.
Any ways,like S.R.Patch said and I totally agree-----------it's the "stuff" that's already in the hound more than the "stuff" you feed him.
And as always. JMHO

[warddog]

Shady grove beagles, I love reading those post from actual experiences of yesteryears gone by. They ALL remind me of my great uncle who I learned a lot about hounds from back in the day. He always had coon hounds as well as a beagle or two and your story about cooking for the dogs everyday brought back those ole days. He lived with my grandparents for as long as I can remember and all us called him uncle Lloyd. Ole uncle Lloyd would cook up a mess of dog food for the hounds he had EVERYDAY. He was retired from the coal mines and said he always needed a good hot meal at least once a day to be able to do the hard work required of miners so he provided that for his dogs each and every day. We also knew him as a avid gardener and he always had way more vegetables than they could eat and what he didn't give away he cooked up for his dogs. This is where he and my grandmother would not meet eye to eye as his ole animal carcasses that he harvested including coon, opossum and ground hogs would go into his freezer to be put into the pot to render down for his dogs hot meals. Of course in the summer time the garden scraps would go into the pot as well. He loved when we had a big family meal with the entire clan coming to Granny's house as ALL the potato peelings and any table scraps would go into his big ole pot as well. He would load the big ole pot up with animal carcass parts with plenty of water so as to have a lot of broth then add the table scraps, potato peelings and anything else that may not be fit for us to eat, including CHICKEN bones. After that all cooked down and it still had a lot of broth he would add meal he got from the grainery down the road by gunny sacks full that were floor sweepings or spills for free or a little bit of nothing. If he had to buy dog food it would be the very cheapest he could find BUT he never bought much actual dog food. What he actually cooked up was a big ole pan of mush and he would slop his dogs like pigs. I'll say they always looked in fine flesh and would run, tree all night nearly every night with the best of them. When I got to the point I had my own coon hounds and started competition hunting them I often wished I had some of uncle Lloyds ole grade hounds of yesteryear as they would have been competitive with ANY of the top name coon hounds I saw cast in the hunts I attended. Times change but what doesn't change is how businesses hide what actually it is that they produce and in this day and age it is MASS produce. In the grand scheme of things it's all bout the almighty dollar and in order to get their fair share of it these manufacturers have to hide the truth be it in your food let alone pet foods. Again going back to the day everyone wanted an ole slop feed HOG as they had little money in it and it got nice and fat so as to put on plenty of fat for lard BUT the manufacturers of all this processed oil have made consumers think that lard is bad while their processed crap with added ingredients is so much more healthy. WRONG, as the truth is it is so much more convenient than lard but the science would NOT support that the processed stuff is better for you. I can remember back in the day when we had commodity lard and there was a little pill that you could add that made it yellow like butter. White lard or yellow butter was both the very same other than color. And the ole hounds loved that too be it the white one or the yellow one!

[TOBY]

Holy crap. Why don't y'all just write a book.

[warddog]

LOL Must be a pretty good one as evidently you have read every chapter.

[JUDE]

I feel that if a hound is getting his basic needs, the "stuff" is whats already in the hound, his heart, desire and raw ability.