WSRandy,
It's acceptable for you to listen to a vet's advice, but "show folk" shouldn't/can't/don't? "Show folk" are often not chemists or vets, either! They listen to vets as much as anyone. Since my wife has worked at vets for over a decade now, we've known a lot of vets. I'm to the point where I take my wife's vet opinion without even questioning it. IMHO, the only difference between her and some vets is the actual vet school diploma. I don't think using Ivomec is going to hurt my dogs, nor do any of the vets we've talked to or anything I've found in researching it, nor does my wife. End of story.
"I know many of guys who use it with great results. Just surprised that "show breeders" would with all the health checks they have done and $1,000 pups on the line."
I guess that's another places where you and I are different. You see $1,000 pups on the line. I see MY BEAGLES on the line. I don't care if I'd spent $10,000 raising a dog, if it were my free highway bitch, or just some stray dog passing through our place on his or her way to a new home. I wouldn't have ever given one of my dogs a single dose of Ivomec if I didn't believe 100% it was just as safe as Heartgard. The same goes for my wife.
Puppy pricing
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MasonsBeagles
- Posts: 2213
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F
I get diluted Ivomec from the Vet for heartworms. Every vet Ive talked to says it will get the job done. It also is given for mange and if used regularly will control ear mites. I would buy the Ivomec at Tractor Supply and give it myself. It is so cheap diluted from the vet I just get it there. Diluted is 1cc per 10 lbs of body weight.
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pete young
- Posts: 381
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Boomer, Boomer, Boomer, I think you better go back and take your time to read my post as it evidently flew right over your head. If I were a breeder, which I'm not and I see that a show breeder can get $1000.00 for their CULLS, you know rejects, to be used by yuppies for nothing more than house dogs, then I as a running breeder ought to be able to get at least half of that $500.00 for my non-culls (You know the ones that will run a rabbit but just not to suit me). Now I hope you don't think I'm dumb enough to believe that there's no money to be made $500.00@ cull pup. Hello, for a $1000.00 each that's being gotten from yuppies for a cull show pup I'll sell them every good running dog I got for that $1000.00 each.
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Honey Pot Hounds
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Thats exactly what I have been trying to tell you guys!! As long as your good running dog or your hunting cull is attractive and has a friendly personality and would make a nice house dog you could sell one as a cute puppy for whatever the market in your area will support. If it is over a few months old, or an adult ,that is a whole different can of beans though.warddog wrote: If I were a breeder, which I'm not and I see that a show breeder can get $1000.00 for their CULLS, you know rejects, to be used by yuppies for nothing more than house dogs, then I as a running breeder ought to be able to get at least half of that $500.00 for my non-culls (You know the ones that will run a rabbit but just not to suit me). Now I hope you don't think I'm dumb enough to believe that there's no money to be made $500.00@ cull pup. Hello, for a $1000.00 each that's being gotten from yuppies for a cull show pup I'll sell them every good running dog I got for that $1000.00 each.
Also, when I say "culls" as far as showdogs are concerned I mean a dog that may be almost "perfect" in every way but its bite is a tad off..or it's eyes are too light...or its earset is way too high...tailset too low...gay tail....or maybe it is shy. Or maybe it is just too plain. Nothing serious. A dog with a bad temperment or cleft palate or something unsuitable for a good family pet is probably going to be a total loss to the breeder and euthanized.
Yes, I know I said I was leaving this thread but how much packing can I do now before we leave Sunday
Cindy
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Boomer, you and I may never agree and it dont mean I am right or you are right, or you're wrong or I am wrong........it simply means we dont agree. I always hear guys talking about how their vets give them Ivomec, I have talked to several vets around me and have yet to find ANY VET that says to give Ivomec, someone give me a number of a vet that prescribes Ivomec on paper for my dog and I will give it thought. Until then I will take my wifes advice........and she says to take the vets advice, and the vets I use advice not to use itBoomer wrote:WSRandy,
It's acceptable for you to listen to a vet's advice, but "show folk" shouldn't/can't/don't? "Show folk" are often not chemists or vets, either! They listen to vets as much as anyone. Since my wife has worked at vets for over a decade now, we've known a lot of vets. I'm to the point where I take my wife's vet opinion without even questioning it. IMHO, the only difference between her and some vets is the actual vet school diploma. I don't think using Ivomec is going to hurt my dogs, nor do any of the vets we've talked to or anything I've found in researching it, nor does my wife. End of story.
"I know many of guys who use it with great results. Just surprised that "show breeders" would with all the health checks they have done and $1,000 pups on the line."
I guess that's another places where you and I are different. You see $1,000 pups on the line. I see MY BEAGLES on the line. I don't care if I'd spent $10,000 raising a dog, if it were my free highway bitch, or just some stray dog passing through our place on his or her way to a new home. I wouldn't have ever given one of my dogs a single dose of Ivomec if I didn't believe 100% it was just as safe as Heartgard. The same goes for my wife.
Like I said. I am a carpenter, not a Vet or a breeder. $1 a month per dog dont break me up. Accept that or dont..it makes me no difference! I will keep giving my flea bags the stuff that says its for the animals that bark 
I have 4-5 bitches that have never been bred. I have bred 2 litters in the last 5-6 years and still have every pup out of 1 litter. Selling pups is the last thing on my mind, I have did far more buying then selling. You think of your dogs as YOUR BEAGLE, I think of mine as more than JUST A BEAGLE. Now would you give your child molded bread instead of penicillin just because its cheaper???? Thats the end of that story.
I just get a little uptight when people start taking pop shots at the small breeders who put out darn good hunting dogs in their backyards! I dont feel like anyone has a right to call them a puppy mill because they dont charge $1000 a pup or raise them in a big heated barn. There is no room in rabbit dogs for people to be looking down their noses like they are better because they charge more, make more or have more. And thats how I feel about it.
Best to you all,
Randy
PS. I am going to try staying in my hole now.
All of them are culls if they can't circle a rabbit. Lets be realistic here how would you know what traits are passed good or bad when you only judge part of the total dog. I know that will offend some but like I've said before it's alot easier to breed conformation or field traits then both. Any that throw either to the wind hurts the breed just no 2 ways about that. Just human nature to take the path of least resistance, I guess.If I were a breeder, which I'm not and I see that a show breeder can get $1000.00 for their CULLS, you know rejects
Our Dirty Pond Beagles "Heaven goes by favour. If it went by merit,
you would stay out and your dog would go in."
-M. Twain
you would stay out and your dog would go in."
-M. Twain
"Also, when I say "culls" as far as showdogs are concerned I mean a dog that may be almost "perfect" in every way but its bite is a tad off..or it's eyes are too light...or its earset is way too high...tailset too low...gay tail....or maybe it is shy. "
I am just a rabbit hunter but going from your description of a cull excluding the light eyes if you are having pups with these traits and you are a show breeder and still getting $500 a pop i would like to send you some pups to sell. What you describe can be found in any litter from any mating including ole joe's pups born under the barn last week.
Here is my proposal. I will sell you AKC registered pups "culls" going by their looks of course for $250 each and deliver them to you doorstep. All you have to do is broker the sale of these "culls" for pets at $500 each which i think is the going rate for "culls" where ever you are from. Each sale NETS you a cool $250 profit. I think i can scrounge up atleast 7 pups each week to sell to these Cull buyers. This will put let's see $250 each pup (X) 7 days a week (=) $1,750 a week! $91,000 a year.
11 years from now we can be sitting on a beach somewhere sipping cold drinks thinking back when this all got started. Who would have known that in 11 years you could sell over 1 million dollars worth of cull puppies.
Justify it all you want! Show me any market where i can sell beagle pups for that kind of money and i will show you a guy that just found a new occupation!!!!
I am just a rabbit hunter but going from your description of a cull excluding the light eyes if you are having pups with these traits and you are a show breeder and still getting $500 a pop i would like to send you some pups to sell. What you describe can be found in any litter from any mating including ole joe's pups born under the barn last week.
Here is my proposal. I will sell you AKC registered pups "culls" going by their looks of course for $250 each and deliver them to you doorstep. All you have to do is broker the sale of these "culls" for pets at $500 each which i think is the going rate for "culls" where ever you are from. Each sale NETS you a cool $250 profit. I think i can scrounge up atleast 7 pups each week to sell to these Cull buyers. This will put let's see $250 each pup (X) 7 days a week (=) $1,750 a week! $91,000 a year.
11 years from now we can be sitting on a beach somewhere sipping cold drinks thinking back when this all got started. Who would have known that in 11 years you could sell over 1 million dollars worth of cull puppies.
Justify it all you want! Show me any market where i can sell beagle pups for that kind of money and i will show you a guy that just found a new occupation!!!!
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rimfirematt
- Posts: 109
- Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 9:44 pm
- Location: Anchorage, Alaska
I just started reading this thread, and honestly didnt read all the way through it. But here in alaska it is pretty common to see beagles (when you can find one) sell for 500.00 or more. This is for just a beagle with papers. No special breeding.
When I got my beagle with good breeding in it for 250.00 plus 250.00 shipped up I thought I got a heck of a deal.
Has anyone checked out the price of "in vogue" hunting dogs like Pointers and labs. Your lucky if you can touch one of those for 500.00
When I got my beagle with good breeding in it for 250.00 plus 250.00 shipped up I thought I got a heck of a deal.
Has anyone checked out the price of "in vogue" hunting dogs like Pointers and labs. Your lucky if you can touch one of those for 500.00
http://hometown.aol.com/birdsforyou/The ... Page1.html
I think these folks have found a niche in their marketplace.
Goes
I think these folks have found a niche in their marketplace.
Goes
"I just get a little uptight when people start taking pop shots at the small breeders who put out darn good hunting dogs in their backyards! I dont feel like anyone has a right to call them a puppy mill because they dont charge $1000 a pup or raise them in a big heated barn. There is no room in rabbit dogs for people to be looking down their noses like they are better because they charge more, make more or have more. And thats how I feel about it."
WSRandy,
I never took any pot shots at small breeders, nor did I say they were puppy mills.
WSRandy,
I never took any pot shots at small breeders, nor did I say they were puppy mills.
warddog,
Yes, you can make money at $500/cull pup if people will pay for that and if you don't put that kind of expense into the dog. There are plenty of people who do that. My point is that the show breeders put vast expenses into their dogs to establish their breeding programs, so $500-1000/cull pup doesn't make "good money" in the end for them. And $500 is pretty high for a cull pup, IMHO. That's about the upper limit for the cull pups from the show beagle breeders I know, and that's half of $1000.
It's not necessarily yuppies spending big $$$ for a show cull. When I buy a dog, I'm buying it for life - whether that dog lives for one year or for seventeen. And until it reaches old age, I want that dog to be physically active and free of health problems. I don't want a dog with a tendency towards eye, elbow, hip, immunity, or behavioral problems. I don't want a dog with epilepsy. A lot of people feel that way. A lot of pet owners buy a dog every 10-15 years. $1000 ever 15 years isn't that much, is it? AOL is what - $25/month? Three years and four months of AOL buys a $1000 pup. And they're not just necessarily buying them as "house dogs." You'll find recreational hunters who buy from show lines, along with people who want to do performance events (agility, tracking, obedience), etc.
Show breeders are often frequently in touch with people they sell pups to, and those people almost certainly contact the breeder if any health issue arises. People with dogs a few generations down the line might even contact that breeder, and the breeders see the descendents of their breeding program out in the show world. And then many show breeders do health testing and whatnot. Furthermore, if there's a problem in a line, word spreads rapidly in the show world. So there's a bevy of info about genetic health in the kennel lines. Some people are willing to pay a premium for a dog with that kind of supporting information behind it. It's not a full-proof guarantee, but it's a lot more than is available if you buy a puppy from the average breeder. You're not just paying for a pup, you're paying for some assurance it's going to life a healthy life.
The difference between $250 and $1000 can quickly be made-up in vet bills. A "free pup" came in the other day to my wife's vet with parvo. The owner had the choice of putting it down or spending money for treatment in the hopes it recovers. Those bills alone will be several hundred $$$. How free was that? Genetic problems down-the-line can certainly be very costly, too.
Yes, you can make money at $500/cull pup if people will pay for that and if you don't put that kind of expense into the dog. There are plenty of people who do that. My point is that the show breeders put vast expenses into their dogs to establish their breeding programs, so $500-1000/cull pup doesn't make "good money" in the end for them. And $500 is pretty high for a cull pup, IMHO. That's about the upper limit for the cull pups from the show beagle breeders I know, and that's half of $1000.
It's not necessarily yuppies spending big $$$ for a show cull. When I buy a dog, I'm buying it for life - whether that dog lives for one year or for seventeen. And until it reaches old age, I want that dog to be physically active and free of health problems. I don't want a dog with a tendency towards eye, elbow, hip, immunity, or behavioral problems. I don't want a dog with epilepsy. A lot of people feel that way. A lot of pet owners buy a dog every 10-15 years. $1000 ever 15 years isn't that much, is it? AOL is what - $25/month? Three years and four months of AOL buys a $1000 pup. And they're not just necessarily buying them as "house dogs." You'll find recreational hunters who buy from show lines, along with people who want to do performance events (agility, tracking, obedience), etc.
Show breeders are often frequently in touch with people they sell pups to, and those people almost certainly contact the breeder if any health issue arises. People with dogs a few generations down the line might even contact that breeder, and the breeders see the descendents of their breeding program out in the show world. And then many show breeders do health testing and whatnot. Furthermore, if there's a problem in a line, word spreads rapidly in the show world. So there's a bevy of info about genetic health in the kennel lines. Some people are willing to pay a premium for a dog with that kind of supporting information behind it. It's not a full-proof guarantee, but it's a lot more than is available if you buy a puppy from the average breeder. You're not just paying for a pup, you're paying for some assurance it's going to life a healthy life.
The difference between $250 and $1000 can quickly be made-up in vet bills. A "free pup" came in the other day to my wife's vet with parvo. The owner had the choice of putting it down or spending money for treatment in the hopes it recovers. Those bills alone will be several hundred $$$. How free was that? Genetic problems down-the-line can certainly be very costly, too.
Goes
14 studs and a Dozen bitches!!!!!!!
I dont see it but do you think they Would provide a Link to the pups pedigree??????????? Or to thier Breeding Standard or even a Breeding Philosophy???
And do you think this could be one of the Conglomerate of Beagle Barns Such as the one in Utah and Idaho And Colorado Wonder if they are all connected?
When I originally posted on this I made an Assumption Based on this information I will not make that mistake Again Without Proof first
Again I apologize
14 studs and a Dozen bitches!!!!!!!
I dont see it but do you think they Would provide a Link to the pups pedigree??????????? Or to thier Breeding Standard or even a Breeding Philosophy???
And do you think this could be one of the Conglomerate of Beagle Barns Such as the one in Utah and Idaho And Colorado Wonder if they are all connected?
When I originally posted on this I made an Assumption Based on this information I will not make that mistake Again Without Proof first
Again I apologize
Last edited by TC on Thu Feb 10, 2005 3:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.
From Field to Show and Show to Field the way it should be
TC, that may very well be a puppy mill. I made an inquiry...you know me. I'll let you know how it turns out.
I can't garuntee that it is a puppymill, I never anything about them but just becaue they have that many dogs doesn't make it it for fact.
the only thing I saw that i wasn't crazy about was how many bitches are expected to have pups in March. 4!!!
I added this site to my favorites and I'll check and see if April is the same way.
But I don't think it would be fair to say they are just because of the amount of beagles they have. heck in NY I had 27 and never met anyone who would have called me a puppy mill because I didn't breed that often, 3-4 litters per year and all went to folks who waited for them or to kids for the camp.
But hey, with that many bitches, they could be. Each one has a different cycle to be able to produce pups throughout the year. 15 pups a month at $500 each, that's $7500 a month.
But they seem to have allot of satisfied customers so w/o further investigation I won't venture to call them that just yet. Heck they don't ship either, it just may be some folks who really love the breed and are making allot of families happy.
Goes
I can't garuntee that it is a puppymill, I never anything about them but just becaue they have that many dogs doesn't make it it for fact.
the only thing I saw that i wasn't crazy about was how many bitches are expected to have pups in March. 4!!!
I added this site to my favorites and I'll check and see if April is the same way.
But I don't think it would be fair to say they are just because of the amount of beagles they have. heck in NY I had 27 and never met anyone who would have called me a puppy mill because I didn't breed that often, 3-4 litters per year and all went to folks who waited for them or to kids for the camp.
But hey, with that many bitches, they could be. Each one has a different cycle to be able to produce pups throughout the year. 15 pups a month at $500 each, that's $7500 a month.
But they seem to have allot of satisfied customers so w/o further investigation I won't venture to call them that just yet. Heck they don't ship either, it just may be some folks who really love the breed and are making allot of families happy.
Goes
Me thinks you should have gotten those answers before forming your "opinion" and posting it... 
You expect people to keep an open mind to your breeding in show stock, but will not lend that same curtsey to others with their own ways, you know nothing about/ not even till you have the facts...
BTW, I've not been to the site, but all I get from your post is that you think 14 studs & 12 bitches is to much. What numbers do you think Branko work with untill he settled his breeding?
Again, I know nothing of the site or the people dong the breeding but won't judge them on a public board /w no facts...
You expect people to keep an open mind to your breeding in show stock, but will not lend that same curtsey to others with their own ways, you know nothing about/ not even till you have the facts...
BTW, I've not been to the site, but all I get from your post is that you think 14 studs & 12 bitches is to much. What numbers do you think Branko work with untill he settled his breeding?
Again, I know nothing of the site or the people dong the breeding but won't judge them on a public board /w no facts...