Puppy pricing

oakhill · Post by **oakhill** » Mon Feb 07, 2005 2:05 pm

If you built a kennel in 85 and haven't done any up keep then no you shouldn't.

klrconcrete · Post by **klrconcrete** » Mon Feb 07, 2005 2:19 pm

That is an example Oakhill I remodeled my kennels last fall, it looks like we have came to a point where we are trying to justify the price of puppies and I am not sure at this point whether some of you that have replied are trying to convince me and others or yourself of why you charge like you do. The overall operating expense of my kennel I really could not even guess at a figure monthly or yearly, some of you seem like it is a buisness and you have to turn over as much revenue as possible you are probably the same people who have as many litters a year as possible whether or not you need pups yourself, the pedigrees make you foam at the mouth and she is in heat so it must be done. Cha-Ching!

oakhill · Post by **oakhill** » Mon Feb 07, 2005 2:24 pm

Hey, I just thought we were having a friendly debate. I can guarentee you that I make no profit off my pups when I have litters for sale. How is that??

I love a good debate. No hard feelings.

By the way, since you are in concrete, I hope. I am gonna redo my kennels and need some expert advice. Would you be willing to advise me on some of the things I am considering.

steve · Post by **steve** » Mon Feb 07, 2005 3:32 pm

Klrconcrete don't know if that was directed to me or not but I breed for myself,but I can only keep 1-2 from each cross to see which direction my breeding program is headed,so I sell the rest to help cover costs,and sure I sometimes make a very small profit but in turn stick it back into the dogs one way or another.Now if you still feel guys are over inflating puppy price lets talk about how concrete contractors can and do over inflate prices to make a big profit or tell the private guy it takes 10yrds to do a 8yrd job,so don't act like puppy prices are way to high when you do the same thing just on a different level it's all about money and if nobody wanted to make a dollar then everybody should get free pups or slabs right.So if your happy with breakng even on your pups that's great but don't hack on the guy who gets more for his pups,cause he must have something you don't,know body said you have to pay those prices.

klrconcrete · Post by **klrconcrete** » Mon Feb 07, 2005 4:29 pm

Steve, My prices on concrete are just that -my prices- I completely understand your comparison but-- I make my living from my concrete and masonry services along with making my living I have three men that depend on me for there living and before I get a dime everything else must be covered I hope there is another buisness man on here to back this up. What I have just said is the plite if you want to call it that of American small buisness there are no rewards other than not having to punch a clock. I am not a breeder of dogs I have purchased many more than I will probably ever breed but I know what a litter costs and I know what they are going for, most are over priced! I have good gundogs probably not great gundogs by your standards but they work, I am constantly looking for better dogs and have spent a fair amount on pups and I have said it before on here and I will say it again. When you buy a pup no matter the parents, bloodlines, whatever, you are gambling.

Boomer · Post by **Boomer** » Mon Feb 07, 2005 4:30 pm

HoneyPot,

Don't forget about the expenses of health testing (OFA, PennHIPS, etc) that some show breeders do. And, of course, the responsible ones always make themselves available to re-home (or become the retirement home for) the dog in the future - whether it's 9 days or 9 years after the sale - and spend whatever money is necessary to make sure the returned dog is brought to health and comfort.

New York Hillbilly · Post by **New York Hillbilly** » Mon Feb 07, 2005 4:43 pm

Heres my 2 cents!

If you want a well bred hunting puppy go watch the parents run and then buy. Don't buy one based on what "everyone" else is saying because they heard this or that. Don't get snookered into what you read in magazines. Remember the person paying the add fee can say whatever they want! I think 200-250$ for a puppy out of good solid hunting stock from a person that is willing to show his hounds in the field is a fair price all around. A healthy young started hound that can jump, open and run a rabbit is worth 400$ easy as far as I'm concerned. A good healthy, experienced rabbit hound that will handle well in the field and hunt every time it is dropped like it is supposed to should easily be worth around 1,000$. The time and effort that goes into making a solid rabbit hound cannot be over looked. It is an investment in time, fuel, food, care and emotion. If anyone thinks it is that easy and not worth the price than go ahead and buy a pup, do it yourself and save everybody the whining about how expensive a trained hound is. I will also add that anyone who has ever bought or been given a pup from me has always had the door remain open to come run with me, ask questions at all hours of the day and night by phone or in person and had my continued friendship and support. I will never however guarantee anything in life because I have no control over someone else doing what they are supposed to do. If you don't care for your hound, feed it properly, give it medical attention, give it time in the field, if you make it shy by beating it or shocking it silly everytime it barks in the kennel or does something stupid like all hounds will from time to time why should that entitle the buyer to anything? Let some common sense prevail for goodness sakes. Why does everything have to be such a mystery? If a person has a kennel full of hounds that they are not willing to show in the field why buy one of their pups? At any price! In defense of "show beagles" I must say that I love a hound that looks like the breed standard and not some fiest, rat terrier, basset, whatever mix despite coming with "papers". I watch the magazines and see the hounds that make bench champion and laugh. Roach back, cow hocked, pricked ears, bugged eyes, fur like that of a collie dog, heads like a bulldog,and so on still champion on the bench in many instances. I refuse to believe there is not any beagles in the show circuit that cannot perform under the gun. Several of my hounds I believe would do very well in a show because the look just like the AKC picture that is used to demonstrate what the ideal is. I would love to someday have one of these "show" hounds to get going on rabbits to try and prove the critics wrong. I unfortunately am the type of person that still believes 250$ is a fair puppy price as I said before and can't imagine ever buying a pup for any price that came with a bunch of strings attached or limitations. The same rules should apply when buying or selling a beagle. Once I buy it.....it's mine.....once you buy it....it's yours! You have to do your homework......so do I gotta go!

NYH

steve · Post by **steve** » Mon Feb 07, 2005 5:03 pm

Klrconcrete I'm not trying to hack on you or put you down,just trying to show the similarity.Like you said they're your prices on concrete,so why can't other people have their prices on dogs.And don't think for one minute that I feel my dogs are better then yours or anyone elses.They make me happy and get the job done that I need.It may seem to you that I breed alot and yes I probably do,but that's because I'm breeding my own line of dogs here and not jumping from one line to the next,I'm doing this with what is here,it's a long hard road with set backs but at least I can say it's all mine,and sometimes you end up with more dogs then normal but anyone that is or has developed there own line knows it takes alot of dogs to do this.My questioned to you is why are you unhappy with your dogs if they get the job done (you said your always buying ) more then your breeding,just wondering.

cris axtell/coal hill ken · Mon Feb 07, 2005 7:55 pm

all my pups are born into my hands and raised in my living room. last time i had two litters in 24 hrs.try raising 13 pups to 7 weeks along with 6 adult dogs in your living room.by the time they leave they are coming when called and most of the time going to the door to go out. this is a lot of extra work and yes i expect to make some money for my time.

klrconcrete · Post by **klrconcrete** » Mon Feb 07, 2005 8:07 pm

2 litters in 24 hours was this for the bettering of the breed? Or $$?

dmart · Post by **dmart** » Mon Feb 07, 2005 8:28 pm

Honey Pot

The most that i have heard a beagle stud sell for was $2600 and a litter of pups ...this was a proven stud hound ...but ended up shooting blanks not too long after .

warddog · Post by **warddog** » Mon Feb 07, 2005 9:11 pm

Folks I have been following this thread from the beginning and trying to keep out of it due to the fact that I am NOT a breeder. Now, I have been around hounds my entire life and come from the older days when rabbit hunting and beagles were a way of life. As a kid we didn't hunt only because we loved too but out of necessity to help augment the supper table. Yes, we were poorer than a church mouse and I was the oldest of 7 kids so I hunted with the family from a young age. Believe me we didn't have any high powered beagles being fed all this high dollar commercial dog feed and what we did have got fed cooked potato peelings and corn meal mush. All my uncles had a house full of kids too so on the weekends it would be the men and boys out to the woods to hunt rabbits or squirrel, pick mushrooms or catch fish to help feed the rest of the litter back home. I reflect on this only to help explain that I think of rabbit hunting and beagling as a poor man or woman's sport. I say that because of why my family originally started to do it. I believe that most of the older generation started because of the same reason. I'm not knocking anyone for whatever price they put on a puppy or a dog but I do believe there is alot of what I call paper designer beagles. Folks I don't care what blood lines you breed there are NO guarantees that any pup out of that litter will be worth a plug nickle. If you breed registered stock that you are absolutely positive of the ancestery off then you may tip the scales a little in your favor but I doubt if anyone can be absolutely positive of a hounds complete ancestry. I have since my younger days did better than my parents and grandparents and can afford a little higher priced dogs and equipment but believe me I am still of the mind set that rabbit hunting is a poor man's sport. I have never looked at my hounds as a way of making money or even that I could recoop what I put into them as I know it just won't happen. Hounds and hunting to me is a financially non reimbursible sport and the enjoyment I get from the hounds work is payment enough for me. As a matter of fact that is the only return anyone can expect from a hound as you certainly will not make a return on rabbit pelts, lucky rabbits feet or hasenpfgeffer and if you are in it to do otherwise you are in it for the wrong reasons. In my eyes $200.00 to $250.00 is plenty for a puppy that comes with no guarantee that it will ever amount to anything. Even if the breeder guarantees the pup to be running in a years time and it isn't then you have still put all the time, feed and care into it for a year for nothing. When I buy a pup I take it just as I took my wife, for better or worse, in sickness and in health as I know puppies, just as Life comes with no qwritten guarantees. Like I said a person can elect to ask any price they so desire and I can elect NOT to spend it. There are things that are just inherent in the cost of doing any business and there are also things inherent in having dogs whether for sport or pleasure. I will also tell you this I have traveled several miles looking at $800.00 to $1000.00 beagles and I have yet to see one. The only $800.00 pup I could ever see is one with a golden eye and not the one that would be winking but the one that would be stinking!

Honey Pot Hounds · Post by **Honey Pot Hounds** » Mon Feb 07, 2005 9:44 pm

The way I see it our (meaning basically everyone here) Beagle puppies are WORTH as much as we can get for them.

If a nice yuppie couple wants to buy one of my puppies for $1000.00 good for them and me! They probably spend that much on Chardonnay every year anyway and a nice Beagle is much healthier for them

If they don't buy my Beagle (and name it Snoopy and put it in doggie daycare while they work every day) than they will pay my good buddy Lorraine that money for one of her pups instead.

Or if some little boy from a less fortunate family down the street wants one of my puppies maybe I will decide to sell him one cheap and have him do some Beagle sitting for me for a year......something like that......

There is almost always a way to work with the customer to be fair to them and yourself........I certainly do not think any of us ask too much money for our dogs.

WSRandy · Post by **WSRandy** » Mon Feb 07, 2005 10:38 pm

Honey Pot Hounds wrote:The way I see it our (meaning basically everyone here) Beagle puppies are WORTH as much as we can get for them.

If a nice yuppie couple wants to buy one of my puppies for $1000.00 good for them and me! They probably spend that much on Chardonnay every year anyway and a nice Beagle is much healthier for them If they don't buy my Beagle (and name it Snoopy and put it in doggie daycare while they work every day) than they will pay my good buddy Lorraine that money for one of her pups instead.

Or if some little boy from a less fortunate family down the street wants one of my puppies maybe I will decide to sell him one cheap and have him do some Beagle sitting for me for a year......something like that......

There is almost always a way to work with the customer to be fair to them and yourself........I certainly do not think any of us ask too much money for our dogs.

What makes a $1000 show "cull" anymore special then that $1000 puppy mill puppy at Petsmart?? Atleast them people who give Petsmart $1000 get the dog without all the conditions of limited registrations, no reproduction or already cut , co-ownerships, if you ever get rid of it its still mine, and I will always own it even if you pay $1000 for it.

Dont take this wrong..........if you can breed 1000 dogs a year and get $1,000 per pup I will be happy for you and your friend Lorraine. But is what I dont understand is how several of you folks talk about puppy mills and their $1000 pet store dogs, but yet you support a $1000 show cull.

Isnt a $1000 pup a $1000 pup....anyway you slice it, its an expensive gamble !!!

Speaking of yuppies........3 piece suits are everywhere........

Go figure.

I am outta here, back to my hole!
Randy

Bopeye · Post by **Bopeye** » Mon Feb 07, 2005 11:17 pm

Have we learned anything yet?

Sell a dog for how much you think it's worth.
Buy a dog for how much you think it's worth.

Easy enough.