Most dominating performance you have witnessed??

[S.R.Patch]

Well Patch, you seem to have the entire field trial world narrowed down to be a negative aspect of beagling & detrimental to the hunting breed. You say you don't want to belittle field trials, but that's all you do. Anyone that truly cared about our sport & the beagle breed would be able to recognize & appreciate that field trials have been put in place with the intent to promote a better hunting dog & are doing just that in my opinion. It seems like you want to promote your bloodline over the more successful bloodlines that win field trials by calling our dogs "field trial" hounds & reproducers of " field trial" hounds insinuating that they aren't top quality hunting hounds also. I guess it is okay for you to try to diminish the quality of certain hounds & your bloodline be off limits. I learned as a judge to call them like I see them when it comes to hounds & not worry about people's feelings in order to get it right. I'm sorry if I offended you by describing the patch hounds I've seen & I truly hope they do not represent what you keep & hunt. I hope your hounds are top notch whether you decide to prove it in the field trial arena or not, but downgrading our trials & other beagle bloodlines does not make yours look better & will just bring out bad qualities in people that you would otherwise think highly of.

"Calling all cars, calling all cars, patch is now calling "the entire field trial world negative and detrimental to the hunting breed"!!! "He doesn't care about our sport or the beagle breed and that field trials are makein better hunting dogs, this is my opinion and he's going against it!!!
"He's promoting his bloodline over the winning field trial hounds by calling our hounds field trial hound and reproducers of field trial hounds" If field trials are doing what you state, why in the world would you take offense to someone saying they reproduce more of the same? But anyway, I can't take credit for saying that, that was a quote from Willet Randall a long time ago. He said, " if you want hounds that win in the field trials, buy the from those that are successful in the trials. If you want hounds that hunt, buy from those that hunt their hounds."

Again, please show me where I down graded any trial or line of hounds. I never said the patch line was off limits, but only ask for you to give the number of patch hounds you've seen or maybe a fieldtrialer who bred or trained them. You throw out so many generalities to make things look your way and inject your opinion and comprehension of what is said to twist things, that you have the nerve to suggest I care nothing for the breed or the hunting hound,.... unbelievable!!!

& will just bring out bad qualities in people that you would otherwise think highly of.

[/quote]
If you were a hound, I'd say you've "blown-up", rattled, babbling, laying false lines, and then as you often have in the trials, the "me-tooer's" come following along.
You even go back to edit your post to fill in the holes you've left. To place the standard you put on hounds too yourself, I'm afraid we'd have to order you up and send ya back to the truck...

[WELLS WOODS]

So you are saying field trials are a vital part of beagling & you think we are promoting the best hunting hounds. I must have misunderstood your posts. All apologies. Most of your posts look like quotes from Willett Randall, who was a great beagler. When he spoke out against field trials, he was talking about brace trials, not the gundog trials we hold today. Get it ?

[S.R.Patch]

So you are saying field trials are a vital part of beagling & you think we are promoting the best hunting hounds. I must have misunderstood your posts. All apologies. Most of your posts look like quotes from Willett Randall, who was a great beagler. When he spoke out against field trials, he was talking about brace trials, not the gundog trials we hold today. Get it ?

No, I think field trails are a part of the game, and in themselves are are only a small part. I truly believe if field trials ended tomorrow, hunting would go on as it always has. Now the number or names of the people involved would change, but sportsmen and there hounds would continue.
I often quote from Randall, I think he was a great houndsman and had good hound sense and understood animals and their natures. I have read all his writings I could get my hands on. Could you direct me to the article and magazine or book where he said he was referring to brace hounds when he made the statement I quoted, that would help me to understand my misgiving of his intent. I remember he was impressed with the black-blanket craze the field trials started and even tried to add it to his hounds.
I think to feel more apart of the field trialing fraternity, we as hunters when we come together to run our hounds and hunt could just call it a "field trial under the gun" (FTUG), then it would feel and sound like we are doing our part to promote the beagle as a hunting hound and improve the breed. We hunt with lot of guys from different states and different lines of hounds.
Anyway, good talking to you, got it?

edit' ps... in my understand Randall wasn't speaking out against field trials when he said what was quoted, he was saying, there are some things that are emphasized in trials and there are other things that are required in a hunting hound that are not tested for at the trials. Maybe like shooting over the hounds to test for gun-shyness or running as long as necessary, days on end to satisfy the hunter. I remember Mike Yates telling me about his first field trial hounds in spo, he called them his "two hour wonders...

[WELLS WOODS]

I think Patch that we agree that a field trial should simulate a hunting situation. This has been my experience in the Mid-West Association. You must have encountered a different experience & then I can see why you are reluctant to give some field trial hounds their due credit. I'm sure I would feel the same way. I believe any true houndsman & hunter would be proud of the type of gundogs we promote; even the old timers like Randall. Most of the field trials in his day were the "walkie talkie" brace trials & I can understand his dismay, but things have changed since then. I invite you to visit the Mid-West trials & judge for yourself. You may find that there's more to some of these "field trial" hounds than meets the eye & that some of your hounds will fit in just fine.. May God Bless You Sir, Greg Wells

[S.R.Patch]

Greg, your gambling and guessing again, like the hounds you despise.
Most of the trials in his day were not the walkie-talkie brace hounds. He registered his first patch litter in 1896, he was one of the starters of the Empire beagle club and ran in the early hare trials. In his day trials, the motto was, "come stay for the week, we'll run'um till the quitters have all gone home".
I am not reluctant to give field trials their due credit, but listening to some of the things described at trials I have a good idea what's going on and the hounds and hare have some of these judges fooled. jmho
Best Wishes to you and hounds also...

[WELLS WOODS]

Good info; Best wishes, Greg Wells

[S.R.Patch]

GLORY!!! What glory when you half-azz everything and live off the memory of a long dead hound.
No, you can keep your "glory".
No need quoting passages to you from the old greats in beagling, time wasted is nothing gained.
I think it was the mid-90 we had a MidWest fun trial as they were just getting started, I think it was Johnny New came put it on at the old Coal Country Club. It was fun but it seemed they wanted the hounds to anchor more on the checks than our rabbit hounds were accustom. The old gob flats and copperish water holes held little to no scent and our rabbit hounds just wouldn't wast time on dead ground, they cast themselves to regain the line and push forward. If they didn't appear to work what wasn't there, they got a demerit.
I've watched as new organizations and divisions have developed over the years, each truly believing they had the best for what a rabbit hound should be. I sampled a few that seamed reasonable but hunting has always been sufficient to satisfy my hunting instincts and keep me grounded with the sport.
I feel no emptiness or lacking not having FC in front of my hounds or the admiration of men, that vanity is better left to those who's nature it is that they have something to prove. If I can run with this type in the friendly hunting field and not be shamed, I'll at least feel I've not failed miserably and my hounds have some dignity left in their ability.
Trials are there for me to judge, not judge me, for they all change and drift to the more liberal or conservative fashion over time, it's a fact of history.

This the Lord's day, rejoice and be glad in it....
Best Regards

[S.R.Patch]

See, you backtrack again and delete your post.
At least have the patience of a good hound and be sure of yourself that when you speak, it can be relied upon by others.
Babbling emotion doesn't catch the rabbit...

[WELLS WOODS]

Yeah, sometimes I say things I regret. Again, I invite you & your hounds to try the Mid-West trials running today. We appreciate any good hound regardless of it's bloodline. I think you would be pleased with the quality of hounds that win & place. I can't imagine hounds running a rabbit better than some of the winners packs I've seen in the last few years. And now I'm sorry, but like my hounds I guess, I've lost the desire to compete. Goodbye..& Good luck.

[S.R.Patch]

Yes, I agree. This need to get back on the topic of hounds and running the rabbit...

[Jon Gibeaut]

Off all the dogs mentioned in this post, how was they trained? Was they ran with a pack there entire life and withstood the pressure or was they soloed from time to time to keep them in check? I know what I did when I was trailing but just wondering how everybody else does there own hounds, especially the hounds mentioned.

[WELLS WOODS]

I mixed it up between soloing, pack pressure & running brace. If I saw something I didn't like, I would go back to soloing until I was satisfied. I would also try to have a really good hour or so solo run the day before the trial, just to help me rest easier if nothing else.

[HBmudbug]

indian hills gus 1997 most dominating dog I ever saw run. HANDS DOWN

[Newt]

I went to a nascar race one time. Man did them guys suck, they were slow, all they did was make left turns, hell they didn’t even make it one lap and they already had a crash. I could go beat them all, nothing to it, but I will just tinker with my ol pinto in the back lot instead. Sounds ignorant don’t it.

Yeah, I bought one of those $200,000.00 dollar cars once. I brought it home, it came a rain and I couldn't get the danged thing out of my steep drive way. All it would do is spin. So I got my old Pinto out, put my rabbit dogs in the back seat, and went and ran some rabbits.

[WELLS WOODS]

I mentioned FC Thomas's Sandy III earlier. This dog was almost never heard from. My buddy at the time, Brian Thomas ( now my brother in law ) had two pups given to him from a local rabbit hunter. I had just started running in some trials with FWR Seven Pines Quick Step Katie; I guess it was 1993. I stopped by his house on my way to go pleasure run one morning to see if he wanted to go; I didn't even know he had a dog at the time. He told me he had a pair of pups that they just let run loose that were 6 months old. She had started with a blue healer, a lab mix , & a part coon hound that ran mute. We got to the running grounds & I could tell right off that she had hunt, but I figured my female would put it on his because she was really good even by today's standards. Well Sandy just destroyed our dogs; foot, checks, everything. I told him from that point on to keep her kenneled & go with me to some derby's in the Mid-West. She won every derby that year including the derby runoff & made FC the next year. He bred her to Proper Baron 2 or 3 times with good results.
Goes to show, there are probably a lot of good hounds out there that will never get noticed because they didn't get the chance. Prime Time would have never been heard from if Brent Gay hadn't seen a female of mine run one day that he wanted. He knew I had always admired Prime Time, who was now almost 6 & never seen a trial & that would be the only way I would trade her.
Makes you wonder what someone has in their backyard that the beagle world will never know about. It's a shame in a way.