what do you think?

[LaMarr Rhoades]

The only dog that really sticks out in my mind right now is Frenchmans max.

[LaMarr Rhoades]

Bluebelly is still ablle to run very nice,but I dont know if age has caught up with him yet or not,as far as still being one of the few that can at least make it to the finals most the time.He is one of the very few that can still win without compromising style.I dont know how he ran before I got him but he is one of the nicest track dogs Ive seen in little pack since Ive had him.The lat month that i really trialed him he had two first and two seconds.The only other hunt I had him to was the world and we had one of those run crazy dogs in our cast and finally belly just said forget it.I dont blame hiom I was ready to go to.The dog just ran heads up barking all over the place.By the time the judges started figuring him out therer was only time to give him two minuses.

[briarshaker]

i am relativley new to this sport but arha lp to me is a little ruff from the people i have talked to the older hounds from yester year were more like the mid west style hound of today a fast clean hound that run more line in a cleaner fashion not the front runners u see today ive seen dogs at trials
that would cut 20 or 30 yards off a track to race to the front of a pack. in my opinion this is not the type of dog i like but to each his own

[dawgydawg67]

Larsens Native Girl
Larsens Suzy
Bruners Lucky
Bruners Big Ben
Crains HH War Bonnet
Boldstrokes Deadeye Sally
Spicers Blue Back
Hollywoods F Troop
Shawnee Creek Ike
McCleeses Duck

Native Girl and Lucky were probably the 2 best I ever saw run in ARHA little pack.

[DRamey]

This may be a question better broken up into regions. I can without a doubt say that the competition in LP in eastern Ky is much tougher than it was 7-8 years ago, when we first started. The quality of gundog that the average joe owns is better now, too, because of this i'm sure. I'd like to hear from others in other areas, remote like we are for comparison. There are more deer here now as well. Hounds that never needed to be broke or deer proof now must be except in a very few small spots. hounds have been brought in here from everywhere in the past couple of years, some horrible, some good, some great, some outstanding. I have one myself that is outstanding. Every time I look at him he is out standing in the field, watching the others run rabbits!

[LaMarr Rhoades]

I think Im in kinda a hotbed of good dogs around here.I live in Mansfield Ohio and I can think of 1 IFC 3 fc numerous arha and ukc champions and at least 4 dual champions,talk about hard to impress people around here.

[LaMarr Rhoades]

Seems like every time I buy a dog its one of those outstanding dogs

[mybeagles]

Lets keep inbreeding these powerhouses we are creating. At this rate we might end up with a breed of dogs that cant run on snow, and some might even be able to compete in the local gray hound races. Their ears will be the right size. I love to field trial, and I keep only AKC registered dogs, but what I see in my area is the best hunting dogs being owned by guys that stay far away from the trials and the trial breeding practices. I run with numerous different people throught the year and do my fair share of judging and I would hate to have to come up with a list of 10 dogs that would be worth a darn to take to the woods in the winter on snow to gun over. To be quite honest only 3 come to mind. That doesnt say much for whats being produced. In response to the original question, I would say things are getting much worse in the 20 years I have participated in the sport. The sport seems to follow fads, that being said, I sure hope this speed fad passes before we get in too deep!

[DRamey]

Rose City, like I said before different areas are showing up with different answers to this question. Here in Pike CO. Ky, everyone that trials (mostly LP) guns over their hounds. I gun over mine. The vast majority of us here in the mountains of Ky gunned over our hounds long before we had access to trialing. From what I see on this subject, we need to take a lesson from you and others who have seen things change drastically in the past few short years. I can't imagine right now anyone that trials seriously here having gundogs in one kennel and trial dogs in another. I know of several RCH and GRCH hounds that get shot over every Saturday morning. I hope that we never experience what some of you have found to be true, but it seems that your experience is the rule rather than the exception, in that the more "trial crazy" beaglers get, the farther from gundogs they go. I just hope that it doesn't happen here. Best to all, and thank you all for sharing your experiences with this subject.

[Little Dog]

I’m not a trailer, but I went a couple LP trails 3 years ago to see what it was about.

Here is what I saw:

Cold-trailing, backtracking, babbling and then a huge ghost track that got scored. The gallery watched as a babbler towed the whole pack except one dog that actually went the right way. The dogs eventually figured it out and went with the right dog, but the damage was done.

Second time out: I saw a “Champion” dog backtrack for better than 150 yards and one dog get picked up cause he keep hitting on nothing. The guy left and said, “well sometimes those mouthy dogs work in your favor.” That disgusted me. Why would you bring such a dog to compete when you knew its’ traits.

I left and have never been back. I took one dog that got legitimately beat by a fine hound the second time, but there was too much trash these guys called hounds out there for me.

NOW, I only observed 4 casts, but in each one I found a lot of this, so I drew my own conclusion and now I just enjoy running with my dogs. I sound bitter, but I was more shocked than anything.

[DRamey]

Little Dog, I have seen the same things that you described at LP trials here, but the hounds either minus out or get beaten soundly. I have to believe that the trial you went to was an exception instead of the rule in your area. I have seen people new to trialing bring all sorts of junk to compete, either not knowing any better or hoping that a "blind hog might find an acorn." I have also seen, on VERY rare occasions, that same hound actually scoring fairly well due to dumb luck. The system of hunting cast winners to find an overall winner isn't perfect, but it culls a TON of hounds, especially when champs are run together to make grands. Judging has everything to do with it as well. Any judge worth his chaps knows the difference between running and backtracking, ghost tracking, idiot barking, etc. The problems arise with trialing are the same with anything, human nature and human bias. Until we figure out how to get a computer to score hounds, we will have our differences. Go to the trials long enough, and you will meet some true houndsmen and great beaglers. As in anything else, you have to wade through the wannabees.

[cris axtell/coal hill ken]

i agree with mr ramsey. i see some of this from time to time.but its not that bad.

[Little Dog]

Oh, there was some fine hounds at the two trials I went to and 3 of the 4 casts were well judged. But I would not put any of MY hounds under 3 or 4 years old down with such trash and I would prefer not to run with such dogs.

I just find it hard to believe people would compete with such hounds.

Serioulsy, there where good hounds there -- I saw that too.

[cris axtell/coal hill ken]

the first dog i bought for trialing was put in his first trial at 6 mo and tied for first in his cast.but was given 2nd because of his age.he is now a fc. i would not do that again.but when i think they are ready i enter them

[Dave H]

One thing to keep in mind is lp trailed hounds that get thrown to the huge packs over and over can not handle the compitetion and get blown up ( get rough and basicly go nuts). That same dog before getting trialed could run the hair off a hare but got ruined. Poeple who love to trial will bring these dogs back every time hoping for a miracle win because when it was young it got some ribbons with it. They are the ones that make people form bad opinions about lp and they need to stop bringing that hound to be judged. To me a trial should be for that hound you have been running and watching and are very proud of. That hound who you think can win the whole thing and not just place. It makes the running horable and the judges have to weed through them to see the dog that shines even though that dog at the time is doing what its trained to do when it doesn't have scent under them that is to hark to that dog that is barking scent. My point is that its not the breed or the type of trial it is but it the people just casting a dog to cast a dog. My opinion ( like every one else I got one) is that any hound that gets just gunned over will run better and develop a solid style and confidence. The people who just run and hunt do have a cleaner hound and they do there own breeding in most cases. They have no need to go out and buy a pup out of some other blood (Ie: fast footed) unless they want to add something to thier breeding. They could take They're 5year old best gun dog and finish them quick if they choose in most cases. But that doesn't matter at all to them because their reward and trophies for what they have done with their dogs dont hang on the wall its in the stew and freezer. To me they have done thier part to better the breed and need not prove anything. Just my two cents. happy running to all..............