breeding to a solid non titled dog vs champion

[sammiller03]

i have been giving this alot of thought. i have a female that i just bred back to her grand father who is a solid dog and throws nice pups. when you look back through the first four gen of his ped their are no big name dogs other than nomads buckshot mr bill. my buddy will be going on 5 gen of males out of this line and they are good performers. given that info do you guys look for big name titled dogs or if you have a non titled dog available to breed to that is a solid reproducer of charicteristics you prefer do you use him. so basically from here on out i will have pedigrees with dogs most people have never heard of. so i guess my question is do you guys and girls find it important to keep dogs with a titled stacked pedigree?

sam

[Casey Harner]

I don't look at titles much, a gun dog in my eyes is just as equal since I like to gun hunt more than trialling... Titles mean a dog had been tested under different judges and seen different types of terrain. If your into trialling and looking for a titled stud, that might appeal to you. I have bred to a title dog before and got a real nice pup. Would I have bred to him if he wasn't titled, yes.

[Alabama John]

Breed the female that does the best doing what you want a dog to do to the best male that does the best doing what you want a dog to do.
Forget all else.

[Shady Grove Beagles]

Many people want to stack their pedigrees with titled dogs as all that red ink can look impressive to a prospective buyer and can affect the price of pups.Just remember that titles are not herditary! They are an indication of outstanding performance but not necessarily indicative of reproducing the same.
Also keep in mind that in the whole scope of beagling field trialers are actually a small percentage of the whole beagling sport.Yes, their dogs tend to get more attention through magazines,stud ads,promotion,out in the public's eye and of course the internet,etc.
But,if you consider the entire country [and Canada! ] the are literally thousands of beaglers who have never trialed but who pleasure run and gun the beagles regularly and are just as devoted to the sport and their hounds.
I would much rather breed to an outstanding stud that I know comes from a reproducing family whether he has competed in competition or not than to a titled dog that does not have a proven track record of producing above average pups.
As always,JMHO.

[sammiller03]

very good thoughts . this male is the best i have seen to date cant really pull a fault on him except he is smaller then i usually like but what he lacks in size he makes up with in heart and desire. as far as selling pups thats not really a concern. i sold two of the six and my buddies and i are keeping the rest. i just get the feeling that alot of people wold stub their nose at a male that does not have alot of titled dogs up close. i had no issues getting rid of pups and i feel one day when i get back into trialing they might turn some heads hopefully. it makes me wonder hom many awsome blow your mind gun dogs are out there.

[grosswdg]

You couldn't get a better answer then what Alabama John and Shady Grove gave you.
Wayne

[BB Beagles]

I second that. Alabama and Shady nailed it.

[bigcfromrbc]

Papers don't run the rabbit. I gun hunt first myself, and field trail second. If I can't kill a rabbit with that hound I won't keep it. I've been to several field trails, and seen dogs in open and champion cast that showed no hunt among other qualities I don't like.

I'd watch the dog run before I'd take a gyp to it, or vise verse. Make sure they have the qualities you want.

[rabbitearl]

After seeing some almighty FC get help to get started on a rabbit and some gun over.I will take my luck at the dog pound.I think there are some good one out there.But and a big But,I don t think its much about the dog but some people don t know how to rabbit hunt.Its like me.Give me the best coon dog out there.After that.I don t know what to do.I never coon hunting.Some people know how to trial but don t know much about rabbit hunting.But to me if I was breeding to a male.He has to be natural broke.No if and but about if.Don t matter if he reg or not.I am a Rabbit hunter.

[mn_beagleboy]

If the opportunity is there, breed to big name stud that produce. They have to be amazing to accomplish the title and thrown great pups on the ground. I have not heard a ifc and nlpc dog could not circle a rabbit. I have seen handler claim solid rabbit dog to them was not solid rabbit dog to me. Don't let the opportunity pass by and regret later.

[Big Mike]

I bought a female pup out of wooden create at a traders day for 50 bucks, ancestry unknown . She turned out to be a great gun dog, an OK PP trial dog , many cast wins no finals. I bred her to another nice gun dog ,two times, two litters , who had no titles and had been to only one trial in his life. AKC registered, but know dogs in his pedigree that i even recognized. What I got was 11 pups total in the two litters, raised them all. Of those 11 pups, 3 bench champions, 2 grand bench champions, 2 field champions, 1 GrRch, 1 PP HOF competion hound. Was I lucky as heck? for sure , I'll be the first to admit it, but the bottom line is it worked . If you have faith in your female, and like the stud dog, titles mean nothing , I say go for it.

[ray s]

I bought a female pup out of wooden create at a traders day for 50 bucks, ancestry unknown . She turned out to be a great gun dog, an OK PP trial dog , many cast wins no finals. I bred her to another nice gun dog ,two times, two litters , who had no titles and had been to only one trial in his life. AKC registered, but know dogs in his pedigree that i even recognized. What I got was 11 pups total in the two litters, raised them all. Of those 11 pups, 3 bench champions, 2 grand bench champions, 2 field champions, 1 GrRch, 1 PP HOF competion hound. Was I lucky as heck? for sure , I'll be the first to admit it, but the bottom line is it worked . If you have faith in your female, and like the stud dog, titles mean nothing , I say go for it.

If titles mean nothing, why did you mention so many of them as credentials or merit on the pups?

[bigdog]

ray s.. i think big mike was just saying titles dont mean jack $h.t when it comes to breeding dogs.. its what they can reproduce.

[Newt]

If titles mean nothing, why did you mention so many of them as credentials or merit on the pups?

I thought he was saying, if you know what a "good rabbit dog" is, and breed for those qualities, it will probably make a Trial dog.

If it doesn't make a "Trial dog", maybe the "Gundog" Trials are awarding winners based on the wrong traits, and not rewarding traits such as independence and hunt.

[fasttrackpa]

If non-titled dog is proven, and there would be a chance I'd get what I was hoping for I wouldn't hesitate. The same goes for a title if I have a choice of mediocre non=titled hound or a proven champ...best to the best