BEST STUD!!!! TODAY.

[retired4now740]

Rider66 U R rite on

[BCBeagles]

At what point are they a reproducer?

When is the IFC a reproducer, does he have to reproduce IFC's to be called that? When is a FC a reproducer, when he reproduces another FC?

When is an untitled hound a reproducer, when he produces a titled hound? Say what you will the only measure we can accurately show is by stats. Look at the stats, they show Viagra, Oliver, and others as reproducers.......the others not on the list.....just hearsay... like it or not, it is the case...based off the facts....not what Joe says about old Buck owned by old John down the road.

Look at the stats as said before a good bitch is usually involved, a real good bitch, a bitch proven to perform at a high level regularly. What dog, male or female, beats every dog it is run with every time out? I got a big fat check waiting for that one when I see it and it is available.

Some people have figured out the puzzle and put out nice hounds regularly, funny they are serious trialers most the time who evaluate a lot of hounds...wonder how they make there decisions on what to breed and what not to breed? We can only hope for there scraps of knowledge by analyzing pedigrees later...we can only pick there brains for tid bits of information.LOL. I will keep picking......LOL.

Good running to all!

Good discussion and valid points...

[littlewoody]

I want to know how many of these top studs have black spots on there tongue

[warddog]

IMO a reproducer is a dog that CONSISTENTLY reproduces it's likeliness. Packing an IFC or FC degree has very little to do with it. In obtaining those degrees they are judged against other dogs by a human and that is a matter of opinion when man gets his nose into the mix. I'm not saying that pedigrees do not enter into the equation but all they do is give folks an idea of what qualities they MAY get from a cross. There are NO GUARANTEES in life and or breeding as it is a gamble each and every time. I have seen many, many titled hounds that I would not feed and paid good money for some with no papers let alone titles. Folks must remember that breeding of hounds started way back before registration papers and titles became popular and Ole Jack just merely rolled down the hill with ole Jill! Boys, I can remember when I registered a pair of some the first UKC breeding stock hunting beagles that came with the yellow registration that said breeding stock. YES, they were grade, met the UKC hunting beagle standard and ran rabbits just like a hunting beagle should. They were inspected and approved by the breed inspector before they got their registration approval as there were many, many more just like these when UKC started their hunting beagle registry.
I will agree that many packing the big titles are those that are owned by folks that put many, many hours on their hounds BUT you will also see those very same folks with dogs of different blood as well. When they find a dog that has stamped their likeness upon several different litters then they are probably going to get them some of that potency if that is what THEY like. If all this title stuff were as important as some folks believe then why are there not very many IFC's crossed to IFC's with entire litters being FC and IFC's? I'll guess because it is like playing the one armed bandit, pull the lever, around and around the gene pool goes and where it stops nobody knows, to the point that a litter of 7 may have totally differing qualities with not a single one of them even as good as their parents let alone better.

[Pine Lakes]

What makes the best studs are the ones that get bred to the best females. Looks like bitches like Green Bay Blue Bay can put a stud dog on the map. Just about every pup she throws is FC quality. Prime Time was Top Sire for 4 years & I give the credit to the bitches bred to him. Most great Reggie offspring have top notch mothers also. When I look for a stud, I also look at how good their dam was. Time's dam, Moon Pie was awesome; Oliver's dam was loaded with the best breeding from Northern Michigan; Greenbay Shooter's dam was Top Dam for years & the best bitch Kieth Weyers used for breeding. Pinnacle Hill Sport had Tango as a mother; she was super. Most of the late greats had famous dam's also; Jack of All Trades (Dingus mother), Blue Ninja ( Birch Haven Bruiser), Haunted Hill Shaker ( Branko's Big Sam & Heli- Prop littermate dam & so on.......... Don't forget the dam of every hound is important. Dino has an Ali-Baba mother, Lucky has a Prime Time dam, Nighttrain had a Jigs mother, Gator had a Heli-Prop dam, etc. etc,

This is exactly why I have a kennel full of female pups. The only male I have is ol' Clyde and he will be the last for years to come. Finding a good stud dog is easy, especially if you don't mind driving, but a good reproducing female is hard to come by.

[riddle74]

im with cjones Staten's The JOKES On You he has some nice ones on the ground

[Double E Kennels]

Quoted from one of the best breeders in beagling " breeding is a crap shoot , no matter how you put it. It's all in the culling process , which comes from the knowledge of the person looking at the offspring " in other words regardless what you breed to world class female or world class male or breed both together. It all comes back to YOU knowing what is a quality hound and either keeping those ones or putting them in the hands of serious trailers. Trash goes under the hill and good rabbit hounds go to rabbit hunters ... Maybe not in that exact order but, Branko has done this for YEARS ...

[J Riser]

How many of these top females have reproduced top off spring with several different males?

[outrider66]

When does a dog become a reproducer ? imo like s.r. patch said When bred to a varity of females and proven to consistantly stamp his likeness onto his pups !
what kind of dogs beats everything its ran with ? that would be the best ! and they dont exist when someone says they only breed the best they probably are
talking about a dog that is above average on most days ! a very small percentage of the beagles on earth are trialed and the ones that make champions are
above average dogs and they receive the most attention!when an above avg. male is bred to an above avg. female and all the pups go to hardcore trialers
and several make champions that male is more likely to become known as a great reproducer ! a male produces 50 litters and has 15 fc and people say WOW!
That tells me he produced 15 above avg. dogs But say out of 50 litters he avg. 5 pups per litter thats 250 pups are those realy good #s ? what about the other
235 pups what did they make ? those are the percentages that tell the real story ! how many made " just avg." good solid rabbit dogs and how many were culls!
if a low perentage of those other 235 pups made "just average" good solid rabbit dogs i would say hes a decent reproducer but nothing to write home about.

[BCBeagles]

Where are the best then? Anyone have a dog that never gets beat or is it just running with below average dogs regularly?

Who has them, I am looking to buy them at ALL times.....

Run, hunt, breed what you like....enjoy hounds...that is what it is all about.

[S.R.Patch]

If I truly believed breeding were a crap shoot, I'd never breed again and only buy running hounds. Way more simple, cheaper and a lot less headaches.

I really don't understand how anyone who is considered a top breeder could make such a statement unless they were a puppy mill or didn't have any understandings of the arts in scientific production. But it does make an excellent excuse for those failures that were charged big money.

The history of breed development is there for each of us to study and learn from. The crap shoot theory is there for those to lazy to learn or those to embarrassed to admit they've been duped out of their hard earned cash, wasted valuable time, or have no idea how to make a proper start.

If your operating off the crap shoot theory, burying whole liters or putting them in the hands of the best serious trialers,...your spinning your wheels.
You first have to build a foundation and a volume of consistency, a family. Then you learn how to breed them together for the best results. Not every one will give you the best results but they will sustain the base and maintain the consistency to continue with. Kinda like a good pack of hounds, not all can carry the front, but all contribute and are apart of the glue that hold the pack together. They may not exhibit the shine of the silver but in their genetics, the metal and purity is there. It is the strength of the family and their inbred qualities that keeps the boat afloat. There are holes that always develop but with a solid foundation to lean on, those hole can be repaired without the great chance of creating new ones from haphazard breeding... jmho

[J Riser]

What does a title have to do with reproducing ability?

[Double E Kennels]

Your opinion patch. I'm not a big board person I would rather let my hounds sort it out in the ground . Hope everyone had a great day.

[Gabby's Beagles]

Titles mean nothing! I've seen a lot of dogs with "titles" that I would not feed. Especially UKc. How can you compare any Stud by the number of pups he has thrown and the number of FC's came out of those pups? It's not an accurate number. How about taking the pups that are actually trialed. If a stud has 200 pups on the ground but only 12 are trialed the odds of getting a high % of FC's are very low. Not everyone who has beagles Trials. I for one don't have money to travel from state to state to run my beagles and have someone give me their opinion. That's just me though.

[Double E Kennels]

Very true Gabby...