Superior Intelligence - A nice compliment for any hound!

[John Way]

Ability to reason , problem solving , intuitive pursuing . I'm not talking about pure superior hunting and persuing ability. This goes beyond that natural ability. I have a young hound in my kennel that is developing into a top prospect. Her hunt is tops, pursuing ability above average , but the all to often things I see her do , has me wondering what motivates such intelligence.
A few examples are , Recently was running four hounds along old railroad bed. The farm fields that border are secured by a heavy gauge livestock fence. Approx 4' high. This fence has the size holes that permit a rabbit to pass through, but typically leaves the hounds hopelesly shut out. Occassionally the excited hounds will climb on top one another, and someone gets some foot hold and propels over. The size of fence holes make for an almost impossible climb for a beagle. I typically lift hounds over to continue chase. This past time , I watched as the hounds jumped feverishly, this young gyp moved down the fence line looking for scent or whatever, thought," what up with her leaving the line" . Well about 50 yds down the line was a livestock feed station. She jumped up on a small bench, then onto drum barrell, over the fence she went directly back to the baying hounds, grabbed the line and away she went. Was this just a fluke? I think not. It has since happened several times. Another time out I watched a cottontail jump about 3' up onto a downed tree. She came over and worked the area for several minutes and for obvious reasons couldn't get the check. A couple times she stood up on her hind legs checking the air above. Thought , " this bitch knows that rabbit is up and gone". This was a large tree and the rabbit was up on a branch some 8' in the air. I just waited and watched. This Gyp came back to the trunk of the tree and hopped up on it. There was no scent line there to compel her climb, but that she did. Walked up that trunk until she was just a few feet from the bunny. That rabbit jumped the 8'to ground , she lunged toward and fell into the brush below. Shook off, and the chase was back on. Next time around almost exact same scenario, except she went directly up the tree. [][/img]
There have been several other things she has done in the field that surprises and delights me. In the kennel her ability are unique. My kennel building has 8 connected dog boxes. 4 on each side of an isle. If I forget to put the hook on her lid, she pushes the hinged top open, climbs out, uses her snout to open another and drop in and out, visiting other hounds during the day. She also jumps across the isle, and pops the lid on the treats bucket. I've had hounds get out of cages and boxes before, but this is extraordinary. My daughter taught her to sit , beg , lay down, retrieve, jump over low horse gates etc. All in no time at all. I'm sure many other hounds have done these things. The difference here is ,what seems to be many times , deliberate action of her intentions ?? Her registered name is Americal's Amazing Alice. Perhaps she was destined for superiority.
I'm sure many others have had hounds that performed above the typical " genetics / blood given ability. Would be interesting to hear anyone's experience of encounters of intellegence.

Oh , and by the way , she has gotten and still gets a good amount of soloing. LOL

[gwyoung]

The early morning sun spread out across the sky like spilled ink on a blotter, My secretary a big blonde broad, or more realistically a big broad blonde, said.... John, this may help as I see you are trying to write a B novel.

[John Way]

gw , Thanks for your kind words. I enjoy sun rises and blondes too. I was expecting you to be the first , and possibly the only one to respond. You didn't disappoint. Hate to give you credit , but your actually some of the reason I wrote about this hound. Many times in the past I've read , as you scoffed , ridiculed and belittled others claiming actions their hounds possesed. As you would say" I'm waiting for someone to explain to me ,a quality in their hound thats not blood responsible".
Hound ( dog ) intelligence is the ability of a dog to learn, " think" and solve. If your thougts weren't so narrow , more receptive or intellegent , you could assimilate/ discern between genetic characteristics and dogs obedience training from intelligence. Instead looks like your to busy learning condesending rymes and poems on the internet. Perhaps some additional experience or research and reading on dogs intellegence will bring you some of your own.
I'll give you a bit of a jump start, some insight. There are three types of intellegence ,
Instinctive - what they were bred for- the only one you seem to know about.
Working/Obedience - following commands
Adaptive - What they can learn for themselves. " WOW"
I could continue here with chapter 2 of my "B " novel ,but need to get back to work. I would hope in the future you would be kind enough to get a bit more experience / education ,broaden yourself with all aspects of hounds , before accusing someone of lying. Good running gw !

[gwyoung]

John way, first off show me where I said anyone was lying. You can't just another lie of your own, isn't it. But let's get to the heart of the matter. You by YOUR own admission wrote something aimed directly at me, and now you are jacked out of shape because I had the intelligence to recognize it. ??? So aim something at someone and they counter and you get all childish , perhaps if you don't want a response from someone maybe you shouldn't point your mouth in their direction , ever think of that ( I doubt it) And like a lot of others you have a big problem with comprehension, I was not asking for qualities in a hound that is not blood responsible as you say ( wrong again) I was asking for qualities in a hound that is not blood responsible that leads to better running, I don't care if your little sophie can play the Piano. So if you really want to answer the question tell me what attributes in a hound that lead to better RUNNING is a product of brains and not blood. ( actually I can think of a couple that enhance) but I don't think you can. I was quite amused by your LITTLE course there on intelligence , this coming from a man with so little of it he has problems with simple comprehension, and does not quite realize yet that aiming a post directly at someone may get him a response. And John don't take it personal, I get a chuckle or two out of just about everything you write, How about writing some more just on intelligence! of course answer the original question of giving an example of how brains leads to better RUNNING, ( I actually can answer that, but not in a way that drastically changes the fact that with very few exceptions all hounds possess enough brains to get the job done, and therefore is not worth mentioning! )

[Newt]

JW, thanks for the story. Its obvious you know dogs, and you know people as well.

[gwyoung]

Newt, I thought you blocked me out , yea, Newt, I would say he knows just about as much as you do, which isn't much. Glad you wanted to horn in, perhaps you can help JW on his intelligence discussion . How about you two just getting together and try to answer the question that started it all since you know so much about dogs. ( I won't hold my breath) You must also feel good about the fact that by JW's own admission he was trying to get something started , you seem to like it when others start something and you can stick your little horn in, probably makes you feel real good , a safety in numbers thing I guess! Please respond.

[fulcount]

The intelligence and Knowledge of hounds displayed here by gwyoung Never ceases to
amaze me
He must have been a houndsman for a long long time

[littlewoody]

Nice read to bad you didn't have video.

[gfedor]

I liked the story, smart dog. Too bad negativity took over the post. More drama than my 13 yr old daughter. Lol.
I like the old saying, have nothing nice to say,say nothing at all.

[rabbitatfarm]

I liked the story, smart dog. Too bad negativity took over the post. More drama than my 13 yr old daughter. Lol.
I like the old saying, have nothing nice to say,say nothing at all.

Amen!!!!

[gwyoung]

Guys, there is negativity here, keep in mind why the nice story was started in the first place, ( see John's) explanation of why and who it was intended for, it wasn't meant to be a nice story by his own admission, you may want to keep that in mind as you pass judgment! I simply recognized what some didn't, and seeing as how it was intended for me I replied, as should be expected. Fulcount, I know who you are, and how old you are, so you are not going to get to pull that card on me. fulcount, you are upset because you tout brains as a great requirement in a hound and I have asked you to give an example of brains and not blood, you have been unable to do so, ( I can give some examples of brains over blood that enhance things , but you boys that claim "brains" can't give anything, why is that? This started out in a nice positive way several threads ago but seeing as how you guys who talk about brains so much can't give any examples to back your theory up you try a smear campaign. Let's do this, let's get rid of the negativity, the starting of threads just for the sake of starting arguments ( as john way has done,) why don't you just answer the question Fulcount, why don't you give us examples of your knowledge. with your many years of experience you should be able to give many, many, examples, it is not lost on the readership that you cannot provide even one answer. This goes for anyone else, give some examples of brains and not blood contributing to the good running of hounds, you say it all the time, I would like for you to back it up, no harm in that, let's keep it positive and on point . Your turn fulcount, give us several examples of brains and not blood you speak about, it's put up or shut up time, no offense intended there, just a nice relevant statement!

[bigdogpace]

I THINK INTELLIGENCE IS # 1 TRAIT N AHOUND CONGRATS ON HAVING SUCH AHOUND

[gwyoung]

bigdogpace, thanks, for the reply, can you give us an example of what you consider " brains" in a hound that can't be attributed to Blood, that leads to better running of the hounds. We will dig into them one at a time, when we get all of the other answers. What I am talking about and have said so is brains beyond what is possessed by 99.9% of all hounds. It is my opinion that all hounds possess enough and therefore brains is not worthy of being discussed as an attribute. Thanks, let's keep it positive!

[Bringem back kennels]

GW,

When a rabbit pulls a few tricks on a hound or hounds...you know, jumping on a log, backtrack then make big leaps to one side as some examples...
is it a dogs "brain" that figures them out or is in their "blood"?

I mean are they born with the ability to know these maneuvers? Or do they have to use some type of thought process and intelligence to understand where they went?
A dog with a brain will compute that data and use it time and again in their pursuit of the elusive rabbit. Thus, his brain will allow him to become a more efficient
tracker with fewer break downs.

By the way, I knew you would respond to John's post before you actually did. Everytime the subject of brains come up you respond.
I am just trying to figure out if it is in your "brain" or is it in your "blood"?

By the way John, cool story.

[John Way]

Hi gw, Just wanted to let you know , that at no time did I ever consider that this topic was pointed at you , or intended to ruffle your feathers. As was just stated, and by my own comprehension , I knew u would be quick and negative with your response. You have quite a track record , especially on this intellegence topic. I don't know you or pass any judgement. Only what I've digested in these pages. If your "B " comment stood for beagle or best I apologize for some of my response, but feeling that wasn't the case. LOL

In my original post, it would b quite clear how intellegence ( adaptive ) contributed / saved a "run." This hound right from a young pup learned how to overcome obstacles. The first year I had her she spent much time loose with me at our home and farm. As an 8 wk old pup she was kenneled with and adult hound. She quickly learned to climb up a couple blocks and walk a 4 ' plank into the dog house. I watched this hound walk up a 10 ' plank onto a dutch door in the barn. Then leap in. She climbed up on a bucket of spackle then a pile of posts and into the back of my mason dump. When I come out at night to feed the hounds, ( usually have several loose in a half acre enclosure around the kennel building ) all the hounds but her are jumping anxiously at the gate. She is patiently sitting 20 yds away. Just watching. When all the others are jumping and scratching at the kennel building door. She quietly goes around the other side , enters a run and pops open a lid in one of the box houses. First to dine almost every day. Eats on top of the row of houses inside by the heat. Nobody else has figured it out? She is a special hound. A real nugget.The brightest hound I've owned. So it is no surprise to me when I saw her get over the fence that day or when ever we come to a fence, she is always the first to look for and locate a hole or place to get under. All of this "acquired knowledge "has increased her value on the line, especially in unusual circumstances. For the most part, she is just another hound in pursuit , but in certain situations invaluable.
These beagles we run were were bred to follow a scent line, genetics has taken care of that, everything beyond that takes brains. Up to the individual hound. gw, do you not watch a hound mature, and increase its pursuing ability and value by experience . ( On the job, self taught) "learning" That takes intelligence to excel. They reconize promising cover and search it, because they have "learned" their quarry often is found there. How many times have you heard someone state" This hound really holds the line well and stays in place, we want to get her finished before she starts getting to rabbit "smart" ( that nagging word again). As an intellegent hound matures , it " learns" short cuts in gaining an advantage. Most of the field trialers frown on some of these advantages , as they may get you picked up at a trial. Lol. Some hunters enjoy these learned traits while "pursuing "I haven't seen any hounds that developed into a certain running level at 1 yrs old and maintained that exact level for their entire life. No , through experience they learn.
gw, your theory holds no water with me. If all hounds in a particular litter ran and developed into identical hounds with equal running ability, I would say you may be right. Genetically speaking they are awfully close in natural ability, yet there are always differences. Given equal opportunity ,then Depending upon the intellegence of each hound, will determine their fate. Can u agree with any of this ?? Thanks for the discourse.