New spin on running solo

[pilotknob]

I start my pups in the wild with an old tattle tale gun dog.Once they are running good and any trash issues have been delt with.It doesn't hurt a thing to put them on the ground by themselves and do their own hunting,running and handling by themselves.Makes a more solid hound.

[Lil.Bredemeier]

There's a fine line between (training ur pup with another beagle) or 4 or 5 bad*** hounds. I believe a little common sense comes into play. But if your haven good results with your pups then keep at it buddy.

[outrider66]

I know we are talking about k-9s and pack animals but just as an example! ok? nascar drivers dont ride shotgun to get
there training ! they hone there skills behind the wheel!

[sammiller03]

i can understand throwing a young dog in with a pack of good running medium speed dogs. but there is no way im throwing one in with a pack of our finished hounds.


there is alot of variables.

sam

[Mikka]

I start my pups in the wild with an old tattle tale gun dog.Once they are running good and any trash issues have been delt with.It doesn't hurt a thing to put them on the ground by themselves and do their own hunting,running and handling by themselves.Makes a more solid hound.

What if they were brought up in a dog pack and given the opportunity to hunt in a pack? What if that old tattle gun had some defaults that you came to accept?
Pack dogs are pack dogs and will learn hunting with a pack... If they don!t, their life is on the line.. You don't think it is a good incentive for a pack dog to be at its best? Just saying that our human know better and understand it all, may have taken over our brains when dealing with dogs that have been bred for centuries to be pack dog.
Now if you have a beagle line that has been breed for generations to be la p dogs, that is a very different discussion that needs to be had.
Talking about beagle lines that have been bred for hunting and trialling. They may not fit the perfect description of a beagle but who is concerned about their colours, pointy noses or whatever as long as they have the papers, that is what I am talking about.

[Mikka]

There's a fine line between (training ur pup with another beagle) or 4 or 5 bad*** hounds. I believe a little common sense comes into play. But if your haven good results with your pups then keep at it buddy.

Read posts prior...

[sammiller03]

most of my pups are not started by an old dog. i usually run them by themselves till they are big enough to keep up with one of the more conservative hounds then they get solo and brace time and then get put in a pack.

That goes back to my original question, why not let beagle train beagles? Did we become too smart to even outsmart beagles and show them how it should be done?
Why do I hear that the best way to start a pup is to put an old female out in the pen?
Seems to me that if we think we have the answer, then it is the right answer...
Why not let beagles be beagles, let them be the best and then trial them?
This is the question that needs an answer... Not, this is how I do it and that is my way and the best way.
Sorry for taking to this like a dog on a bone but I believe that needs to be research much more than the navel starring statements from accomplished beagles or the ones thinking they are and saying this is how it should be d one...
What if there would be another way and I am not saying I have the way! Again I am a pinky in beAgle worlds...

so start yours with a pack and i will run mine solo..if you want to know the reason for solo time guys are giving reasons . if you want to run a pack of 100 go ahead if it works for you. you prob will never see me with more than four dogs over a year old and if i get an upandcomer who is better than the low dog on the totum pole sorry about its luck. thats the great thing is that there is no right or wrong way

sam

[Mikka]

I know we are talking about k-9s and pack animals but just as an example! ok? nascar drivers dont ride shotgun to get
there training ! they hone there skills behind the wheel!

NASCAR drives are taught to drive, it may not be shotgun style, but they go to school and apprentice school. Their survival does not depend how well they drive, just means they go to driving a school bus. How can you bring that up is a good example of what I want to raise in this discussion.

[Mikka]

most of my pups are not started by an old dog. i usually run them by themselves till they are big enough to keep up with one of the more conservative hounds then they get solo and brace time and then get put in a pack.

That goes back to my original question, why not let beagle train beagles? Did we become too smart to even outsmart beagles and show them how it should be done?
Why do I hear that the best way to start a pup is to put an old female out in the pen?
Seems to me that if we think we have the answer, then it is the right answer...
Why not let beagles be beagles, let them be the best and then trial them?
This is the question that needs an answer... Not, this is how I do it and that is my way and the best way.
Sorry for taking to this like a dog on a bone but I believe that needs to be research much more than the navel starring statements from accomplished beagles or the ones thinking they are and saying this is how it should be d one...
What if there would be another way and I am not saying I have the way! Again I am a pinky in beAgle worlds...

so start yours with a pack and i will run mine solo..if you want to know the reason for solo time guys are giving reasons . if you want to run a pack of 100 go ahead if it works for you. you prob will never see me with more than four dogs over a year old and if i get an upandcomer who is better than the low dog on the totum pole sorry about its luck. thats the great thing is that there is no right or wrong way

sam

Sam, btw my name is Dan. Why would you think your solo dogs are better? Because, you pick them out from a reputable breeder and you looked them over twice and decided they would be good?

[sammiller03]

if your concern is beagles being a pack animal that is true. i guess they never get solo time becouse i am with them and i am alpha in the pack and controls the pack. just becouse they are a pack animal does not change their genetics . you me or a pack cannot change that. you cannot run a dog that is a flat medium and run it with fast dogs and expect it to step up its game becouse it is learning from the pack.. it is what it is.


sam

[sammiller03]

sam[/quote]
Sam, btw my name is Dan. Why would you think your solo dogs are better? Because, you pick them out from a reputable breeder and you looked them over twice and decided they would be good?[/quote]
dan didnt say they were better than anyones. i give them solo time for my evaluation. i have two friends that i work with to breed and get pups . most of the time i have seen lots of the dogs behind my dogs run and know what to expect. i know what kind of dogs i want and try to get as close as i can to that dog. young dogs are not physically mature enough to run with our older dogs till they are around a year old . im not going to wait that long to get them running thats why i usually start them solo and then run them with a more conservative dog. if i ran medium speed i could put them in earlier.. but i dont.


sam

[Farwest]

So my question is what do you expect to improve or change by running a dog solo? Isn't it better to run in pack and let dogs learn from dogs than try to teach them by running them solo? I have yet to run a dog solo. As a matter of fact, I do run my pack composed of 6 dogs between the ages of 4 to less than one year old and have yet to see the off side of it. To the contrary, I am doing exceptionally well in trials as I feel the best teacher to a young dog is an older dog. Why would humans be better qualified to teach a young dog?

I wouldn't say people are trying to teach the hounds as much as they are letting genetics take it's course. When your drove 1700 miles was that breeder letting his finished hounds teach his pups?

[Mikka]

Actually, pups have access to a pen with hare as soon as they are weened from their mother. When they start to pack up and giving some tongue, an old slower female is put in the pen with them and that is how their teaching starts.

[mybeagles]

Why would I solo when I have good results? I have a very good base as kennel seed and if the adults are that good, who am I to start soloing dogs when they haven't had a chance to be taught by the pack? That is why, I will not get a dog over 6 months and allow it to get in the kennel. First the dog will be from a proven line and will be given time to find its place in the pack. By 9 months, that dog will be running with my adults!

Not sure what the "new spin on solo" is. You don't solo, you think it's a waste of time. You only pack. That's what the other two threads were....did you read them?



The logic is to strengthen the independence of every hound so they are willing to correct their pack mates. Not everything their pack mates will teach them is good. Some of it can be disruptive.

Some guys claim to have dogs that naturally will not be influenced by faulty pack members but I've never owned or seen one. Perhaps only packing and inbreeding is the key because I don't do either one.

I would bet a fortune every dog in your pack is not equal. There are 1-2 that dominate and the rest make minor contributions. I like to call them "me too" dogs. If individual abilities are not important to you then maybe the solo tool serves little purpose for you. You stated you purchased some good dogs, by any chance were any of them solo'd before you purchased them.

I don't know anybody that only solos their dogs it's just a tool. It's the pack only guys that say they would never solo. There are lots of tools out there to hone a dogs skills and solo is just one of them. If you don't want it, don't use it.

I have read 100's of posts on how to "fix" a dog from this or that. The solo tool is often my top choice. Some of you claim to cull every dog that has a fault that can't be fixed with more pack time and maybe that's fine for some, I just don't like to cull dogs that can be " in my mind" fixed with limited efforts.

One last factor that may be getting overlooked is quarry. Many of the pack only guys run exclusively on hare. I run both and I can tell you it's a lot easier to run a big pack on hare than it is on cottontail. Cottontail typically just don't go on long hard runs in the winter months when all the hunting takes place. Spring or summer is different. Hare will run big most anytime and when I run hare every dog we have goes down

[mn_beagleboy]

I have say it before n will say it again to better beagling. New beaglers listen to expeeience judges n successful beagler on this subject. All pups will learn bad habit if train to be. Especially over running the line n unable to come back to the point of loss. Mybeagle is a guy new beagler should listen to. He directs newbie to the rite direction. Thanks dave for taking the time to explain over n over.

Sao