Breeding to Brood bitch or Stud???

[johns03272008]

I guess I just been doing it all wrong, I don't need to run dogs any more!! I will just breed the pups I got when they get their first heat cycle and then sell those pups and breed another pup and sell those pups and see what I get!!! Maybe I could go breed to someone else's unstarted dog and I will end up with world beating BAOTB that will produce better than the other unstarted know nothing about dogs just because the blood was there!!! Anyone want any of these pups $2000 per pup because the blood is great!!!!! If you want the papers its another $500

[HillBeagles]

I will take the one with the Blue eye John!

[ironjawdawgs]

I guess I just been doing it all wrong, I don't need to run dogs any more!! I will just breed the pups I got when they get their first heat cycle and then sell those pups and breed another pup and sell those pups and see what I get!!! Maybe I could go breed to someone else's unstarted dog and I will end up with world beating BAOTB that will produce better than the other unstarted know nothing about dogs just because the blood was there!!! Anyone want any of these pups $2000 per pup because the blood is great!!!!! If you want the papers its another $500

I think this statement is a little overkill! lol! Ya'll just stick with doing what each wants and all will be happy. I'm sure good breeders have had good luck breeding dogs both ways. Breeding solid field stock and having good luck and others breeding brood only and having good luck. To each their own right!?

[Pine Lakes]

I guess I just been doing it all wrong, I don't need to run dogs any more!! I will just breed the pups I got when they get their first heat cycle and then sell those pups and breed another pup and sell those pups and see what I get!!! Maybe I could go breed to someone else's unstarted dog and I will end up with world beating BAOTB that will produce better than the other unstarted know nothing about dogs just because the blood was there!!! Anyone want any of these pups $2000 per pup because the blood is great!!!!! If you want the papers its another $500

What a stupid rant. I read back through all the posts and not one person said anything remotely close to this. By the way, if you actually did what you suggested, how do you know what the results would be? Chances are you wouldn't produce any fewer AKC Mid-West FC's then that which is coming out of your kennel now. There are dogs that produce better than themselves. Don's had a couple, Turbo and Iris come to my mind, and that by no means should be taken as I think they were culls. Ace was arguably the best 13" male ever to enter a Mid-West trial, should Turbo have not been bred to since Ace was the superior hound? I haven't seen every offspring out of Ace run, but I have seen plenty, and I've owned a few. Not one impressed me personally. Turbo on the other hand, well we were fortunate to have him around here to put it mildly. Some dogs, male and female alike, just reproduce good dogs. In my opinion, of which I have proof of, the best offspring of Turbo was out of Shaw's Oakwood Callie. Guess what, those offspring produced also and judging by your statements, you wouldn't have made the cross because Callie wouldn't have been worthy. Selective breeding means different things to different people and none of them have a patent on predicting the results. There is a 50/50 chance that the lesser of 2 littermates is the better producer. I love Chester and Ky Lucky, but your Blackie dog may prove to be a better producer than them, even though he doesn't have their accolades from trials. I and many others wish it were as easy as just breeding the best performers. Do what you think will bring you success(test your theory), but be prepared to be disapointed and allow yourself to be pleasantly surprised. I also don't think you should talk down to people like your post above. Don Hoog, RB Sester, John Dewyse, and other successful houndsmen don't do it and neither should any of us. Just wish a fellow houndsman goodluck, even if it isn't how you would go about it.

[steve w]

Thank you Pine Lakes, posts such as yours is what keeps me and more than likely others coming back to this board.The attitude some show here gets old and if it were not for tid bits of information people like you provide it would be a waste of precious time to sort thru the nonsense on here.Sorry I'm off topic.

[havenskennels]

Thanks John for telling me about Iris. I never knew Don trialed her. I was always told she was just a brood bitch.

[art]

lmao

[Casey Harner]

I guess I just been doing it all wrong, I don't need to run dogs any more!! I will just breed the pups I got when they get their first heat cycle and then sell those pups and breed another pup and sell those pups and see what I get!!! Maybe I could go breed to someone else's unstarted dog and I will end up with world beating BAOTB that will produce better than the other unstarted know nothing about dogs just because the blood was there!!! Anyone want any of these pups $2000 per pup because the blood is great!!!!! If you want the papers its another $500

Haha


John I'm not saying a dog doesn't need to be ran. I rather run a dog than keep them in a kennel, I feel sick to my stomach when my dogs are in the kennel for a week. All I'm saying is brood bitches can produce a great dog maybe even better than a FCGD female.

BAOTB means a dog from bitch got it. Does it mean you don't gotta run it? No it means that you don't have to run it up to keep their mouth shut. Who would want to breed to a stud that is mouthy when not ran up. A BAOTB, means a dog that is right when he's been put up in a kennel for a month and still runs a rabbit like no other. He doesn't need three weeks of hard running just to get him "right" I rather own a BAOTB than a great dog. I want a freak of nature!

[Casey Harner]

Casey,

I will tell you this, I work for all I have. The good Lord has blessed me beyond my imagination with the ability to first take care of my family, keep my wife home with my two healthy kids, and then my leftover from giving back to the Lord and then taking care of my family goes into my passion, Good hounds. I have never, nor will ever take ANY credit for the dogs in my kennels I just consider myself blessed to be able to have them. It is about good friends, good hounds, and good times in the field!

I wish much success to all be it, if they grow the outstanding young hound from there own hounds or have the ability to go out and purchase a decent dog. It is all about the love of a beagle and the pursuit of a rabbit.

Choose to do things how you like and your opinions are respected by me as I expect you to respect mine. To each his own on how they achieve there goals... BAOTW's can bring enjoyment to....LOL. Breed your broods, enjoy your pups, hope they are beast's and true BAOTB's everyday you run or at least you can tolerate them on there bad days...LOL.

I will still take my chances with good hounds in the field whether bought or out of the dogs I bought..LOL. I am not afraid to ride someones else's shirt tail and let them have the true success as the big time breeder, handler, or whatever motivates them..... I just want a good rabbit race by a dog that looks for the game of choice and runs it as well as it can.

All welcome here to run and enjoy good times after a passion we all have, rabbit dogs!!

Take care!

I respect you Jim, but as you said we all do things different. I rather breed and hope to create a BAOTB. I know that saying means nothing to most on here, but I look at it this way. Any cross I make, I do so by trying to produce a freak of nature. Nothing less than that. I don't want to settle for anything else. I to work hard for my money and also getting married in November has put a lot of other plans on hold, but our wonderful Lord Jesus Christ has put myself in this amazing woman's life. She fought off a brain tumor when she was eight years old and I truly believe there was a reason.

I respect everyone on this board, I respect even the ones for texting me and sending me pms that cussed me out for voicing my opinion. I respect all and remember no body is perfect and we all make mistakes.


God Bless!!

[warddog]

I can only state what I have seen as I am no expert of dog breeding, training, running or anything else about them other than I have watched them for years. The second BEST rabbit dog I ever owned and seen for that matter was a cross from a female terrier, and exactly which kind, I couldn't tell you if it was fox, rat or whatever and a male beagle. I didn't breed this female but hunted with a guy that had a pup out of this female that was a rabbit dog. I asked him about it and he said he bought the pup off an ole boy out in the country that had raised dogs off this female out of different male beagles and they ALL seemed to make nice rabbit dogs. I contacted the gentleman and come to find out he had a waiting list for pups out of this NON-registered terrier/beagle mix and it took me until a year later to finally get one. Got this pup at weaning age and started taking her to the filed with us at four months old to which she started pretty quickly and eventually ran away with our older beagles and other guys we hunted with at the time as well. She was the ugliest thing a rabbit hunter ever put down to run a rabbit with as she was coke bottle headed with short ears and about as open white spotted as could be with very few spots. She also had the terrier yippy mouth but man did she yip them rabbits back to the gun consistently regardless of what she was ran with. She had it all other than looks and pedigree and the ole boy hardly ever ran the mother of her as he stated that she could and would run rabbits but not that well. He only found out about her pups being good from hunters he had sold them to after she got accidently bred by his neighbors male beagle the first time and they returned to see about another one. Here was a cross made strictly by accident the first time and neither dogs packed any titles nor pedigree BUT YET nearly every pup from this terrier bitch made a rabbit dog regardless of the male beagle she was bred to. The ole boy had a waiting list for years from this MUTT brood bitch. If she was around today I would own another one and get rid of what I got and know! In my eyes it serves to prove that breeding is like playing cards as they all got backs on them so you don't know what pairs, if any match up when looking at the cover!

[mn_beagleboy]

I wanna share what I went through when I first started. I believe all beagles could circle rabbit back to the gun, all fc should better than all non fc, the more expensive pups are always better, dogs in the pic with many dead rabbits on the tail gate should be good rabbit dog.I almost back away from beagling when I offered $1000 for some 8 wks old pup and the owner say his pup worth 30k and no wrinkles on the bills. I thought beagling was only for rich people. I wanted the best and thought about those 30k pups for couple days. We met joek and and he was willing to pardon butkus at a give away price. Infact, everything in his kennel was on sale the day I was there. Every dogs were not even close to 30k. I was glad I met joe and bought some very nice dog at an affordable price. My suggestion to buying brood bitch and stud dog, shoot for the best you could afford. As for me, I could not afford to buy the 30k pups and my bills would have had some wrinkles. The experiences I went through, 8 wks old puppies priced under 1000 is reasonable. Fc priced under 30k is reasonable because the parents to those 30k pups worth 20# of gold and i dont blame them. There are many beagler out there wont sell their best dog for one million dollar lol, and this is true.Do your research, breed your best female to the best available stud, and stay within the budget.

[Slaux]

All things being equal I would breed to the proven field performer, add to that, one with a proven field title, FC, FTC, IFC, Etc. However, I would not eliminate a dog as a potential Stud of Dam simply due to it's lack of being exposed to the field. Nor would I eliminate a stud or dam for lack of a title. The ancestor's behind the dog's is what is most important. Example - "Bright's Spirited Buddy", the Sire of FC Lake Ogemaw Casey, several other FC's and excellent hunting hounds was a - "House Pet". He was a physical specimen, and I'm sure given the opportunity would have been an excellent field dog like his ancestor's. Buddy's lack of opportunity didn't stop Gene Byer's from breeding to him......despite the fact his two brother's were succesful in field trials.....Gene thought Buddy had more to offer.......the rest is history.

[Shady Grove Beagles]

Good post Slaux!