moderator please delete post thanks

[Mandi Schafer]

have looked at alot of males lol I like what trigger is producing in his pups.. I like some of the awful bawling stuff. I like branko well... I mean theres too many thats doing well for them to not be nice dogs.. theres way to many to list honestly.

[snowhound]

Since when are dogs bred based on pedigree?????
First and foremost the sire & dam need to fit each others good traits and then
the ones that you'd like to improve.
If we all bred based on pedigree, there wouldn't be any faulty dogs!!!
So Mandi, although you stated this is for "fun", in all seriousness, one can
simply, never ever make a breeding based on paper.
I get the question very often, and simply always tell folks to look at
the individual dogs.
Hope this helps, and it's our philosophy here @ Branko's Beagles.
Bye for now
Frieda Krpan

[S.R.Patch]

Dogs have always been bred based on pedigree, the development of breeds were based off building a pedigree, they started with the Kennel Books followed by the Stud Books. Nothing left to memory ever survives for very long, record and written description are the most reliable source to help coordinate direction and the absolute power of heredity. When anyone sees something good, one of the first questions asked is, "what's that (bitch/dog) out of?".

I'll take something of pedigreed substance anytime over a "one night whirlwind" that's just passing through of no record or family to back him up. jmho
When I went to England, I was honored to be the guest of the Clinkard & North Bucks Beagles packs. Roy had previously kenneled the Aldershot Beagles est. in 1870-1970, and his father Walter, kenneled the ChristChurch Beagles. I never got the history on his grandfather but was told they were three generation family in hunt service. A Kennel book for each yr. the pack was in existence, all member hounds and the young entry, all breeding made, number of whelps, journals of hunts and noted hounds exhibiting performance, stallions and matrons of merit, likes and dislikes. All this, giving record of standard, hounds used, selection, success or failure in most respect of breeding and end result. How invaluable can record of pedigree become? no less than buying a used car or a mule to find it's a lemon or hates work.

Standard and selection are equally important in breeding, but you have to make sure you've got a strong hearty root system to support the tree when grafting on the fruit lest it wither on the vine. These pack masters would speak of breedings and some poor results and then going back in the pedigrees and finding a weak line in the breeding that was confirmed by other masters that had similar results. Some hounds you want to breed away from, being sure not to give them unknown prominence or influence in the pedigree because of faults or weaknesses, be it structurally or in hunt quality .
I've seen some nice hounds but after looking at their 3-generation pedigree, were eliminated from consideration because of a hound known to be weak that was also in something I had in a pedigree. Looking only at phenotype and not genotype that day with performance, I'd probably bred to that hound not knowing the faults I may have doubled up on and produced or spread as carriers in the pups resulting from that breeding.

Surely breeding grade hounds, those without pedigree and judged on performance only, have similar results as those with pedigree? Only from where does it come? and where's the road to the future. A real barn burning question.

[art]

thx houndsfootball but hurry up bossman isnt at public stud.

[Mandi Schafer]

well.. I sure can't believe how this post turned out.. was just looking for nice males and got a bunch of other bullcrap in the process.. in some ways, karpan I agree with you that the dogs should compliment each other in every way. I just feel that if a person was to breed to a grade dog just starting out no matter how good they are it would be more or less a coin flip.. the entire litter could turn out great or it could turn out a huge flop. But I suppose that you could also get that in any dog pedigree or not. I just like to know that at least 3 to 5 gen of my dogs ancestry ran rabbits and rabbits only... no deer hounds, no squirrel dogs coonhound ect although I had considerably questioned the blue eye and color scheme trait on the hurry up side of things. No pun intended but it's not a normal beagle trait you have to admit although I love mine just the same. I am not against grade dogs I just don't want to breed to one and I think that should be respected as I respect others for it as well. I also don't believe a dog has to be akc reg to be a pureblood people hang papers on dogs all the time, and then you also have their pedigree research that allows a ukc reg dog to become a akc dog. There is loopholes in everything. I guess if you really want to go there... every single dog on this earth was a grade dog at some point before people started breeding to see what would happen lol. To each their own and I respect that. Now could we please put all this aside those that hate heat em up those that hate hurry up or whichever bloodline you hate can we just talk about some nice male prospects that has been bred and is reproducing nice hounds? Hell it don't have to be a titled dog in my opinion it could just be a really nice male that has been bred and his pups are darn good rabbit machines! So can we get off the subject of ukc, akc grade and blood haters and get back to what this post is really about whos got some nice males out there.

[mdbeagler]

well.. I sure can't believe how this post turned out.. was just looking for nice males and got a bunch of other bullcrap in the process.. in some ways, karpan I agree with you that the dogs should compliment each other in every way. I just feel that if a person was to breed to a grade dog just starting out no matter how good they are it would be more or less a coin flip.. the entire litter could turn out great or it could turn out a huge flop. But I suppose that you could also get that in any dog pedigree or not. I just like to know that at least 3 to 5 gen of my dogs ancestry ran rabbits and rabbits only... no deer hounds, no squirrel dogs coonhound ect although I had considerably questioned the blue eye and color scheme trait on the hurry up side of things. No pun intended but it's not a normal beagle trait you have to admit although I love mine just the same. I am not against grade dogs I just don't want to breed to one and I think that should be respected as I respect others for it as well. I also don't believe a dog has to be akc reg to be a pureblood people hang papers on dogs all the time, and then you also have their pedigree research that allows a ukc reg dog to become a akc dog. There is loopholes in everything. I guess if you really want to go there... every single dog on this earth was a grade dog at some point before people started breeding to see what would happen lol. To each their own and I respect that. Now could we please put all this aside those that hate heat em up those that hate hurry up or whichever bloodline you hate can we just talk about some nice male prospects that has been bred and is reproducing nice hounds? Hell it don't have to be a titled dog in my opinion it could just be a really nice male that has been bred and his pups are darn good rabbit machines! So can we get off the subject of ukc, akc grade and blood haters and get back to what this post is really about whos got some nice males out there.

Just a few short years ago all White River dogs were grade dogs, you also have Hurry up bred dogs in your pedigree which are known to throw a blue eyed dog. Blue eyes in a beagle is an undesirable trait in beagles and difinitely comes from somewhere else. That trait could pop back up in your dogs down the road, whether bred to AKC dogs or not. I remember seeing a White River dog on the UKC board that was really black and had a shaggy looking coat, that trait popped up from somewhere as well.
Although these dogs look unique they are not beagle traits, I know of beagles that were bred to bird dogs that are known to have different color eyes.
That being said there are several well bred stud dogs on the Genaeral page that are reproducing. I would go watch some of their offspring run, which I have done several times as recent as this pass weekend. I have noticed on this page most guys run AKC bred dogs, and many of them are not familiar with the dogs in your pedigree as they have been run almost exclusively in UKC trials and have done very well under that format.

[fulcount]

I would guess if you were a puppy mill you wouldn't look at pedigree
as per snowhound!!!!

[hurryup]

Our dogs are all AKC and DNA so please check your information. I can't help what someone breeds to or does after they buy a pup. Our dogs have done well in every format.True we run UKC the most. A female in our kennel won the AKC National runoff (1st) two years she was entered in it. I can't afford to travel n run Midwest.

I breed for performance first. If that doesn't suit you don't call me to buy a pup n breed.I don't have any males at public stud again if you don't like my dogs don't call.
Wish you all a happy day..I feed what I like n you feed yours.
Lots of people always looking to bash someone. When you get advice from Frieda best to take it..Oh yes Branko dogs throw blue eyes to..lol

[foxxy]

id take a hurry up dog in a heart beat. thats y i got me a dual blue eyed devil
i like odd markings and odd eyes maybe i am odd idk

[hurryup]

id take a hurry up dog in a heart beat. thats y i got me a dual blue eyed devil
i like odd markings and odd eyes maybe i am odd idk

Thanks

[Chimney Rock Kennel]

I don't know where some people are getting blue eyes are a undesirable trait heck just ask my wife that's all she likes about me. All I know is I've seen several huury up dogs run and they are rabbit machines. I don't care if they got blue,green,purple, or pink eyes if they run like the ones I have seen I can guarantee (if you're not kennel blind) they will be a desired dog.

[Chimney Rock Kennel]

BTW Mandi check out ripper he is owned by hare trigger kennels. He is not at public stud but he is one that should produce some nice pups and already has produced some.

[hurryup]

Thanks Chimney Rock..means a lot coming from someone who keeps the dogs you do.
Eric Ballanger n Curt Mays both have some nice well bred males..Have proven themselves in the field n trials and they are practically your neighbors..I spoke to both they said give them a call.

[mdbeagler]

My post was not meant to bash anyones hounds, just stating some facts.
If we follow the AKC breed standard which is one of the reasons of keeping AKC registered dogs.
According to the breed standard eyes should be brown to hazel.
Blue eyes in beagles is considered a flaw an a genetic defect, as well as piebald coloring.
Both traits are linked to possible deafness in several breeds.
Doesn't make them any less of rabbit dogs, just considered a defective trait.
I have nothing against Vicki's dogs or anyones for that matter.
Sorry to highjack your post Mandi, wasn't trying to offend or bash anyone.
http://www.upei.ca/~cidd/Diseases/nervo ... afness.htm

[johns03272008]

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't there Grade Dogs in that pedigree?? How can you say you don't want to breed to a grade dog if you have grade dogs in the pedigree and you can not just register a grade dog in AKC doesn't work like that. Is your female AKC registered and if so and has Grade dogs in the pedigree how would that make your hound AKC registered just curious.