What is Rough?

[deerhost]

I believe in soloing young dogs to make them more independent. But the few rough and overcompetitive dogs I've had soloing has not helped. One dog I kept for almost two years and put so much solo time into him that it still hurts to think about. He remained rough. The other rough one just got worse with solo work. After running her solo to hell she got so used to running her own rabbit she never wanted to share it with a pack. She would race to the front overrun and couse a check at every turn. I've had a few in between and when I'd solo them it would just make them more overcompetitive. I much more like to solo more level headed and concervative pup. With a pup like that you can solo them and they will sharpen up and be come more independent in a pack . But still only as good as the genetics it was born with.....dh

[PREACHERS KENNEL]

the training of a pup with what you run will help a dog fit your pack. don't over pressure the young dog to quickly it will do bad things.

rough to me is when somebody elses dog does better than mine lol. that's rough on me lol.


skirting the pack .swinging on checks ,that really what rough is ///..if its running the line it doesn't matter how fast it is ...if it overruns and shuts up snaps back and grabs it and goes I don't consider that rough ..if it doesn't run with the intent to catch its quarry then I probably wouldn't feed it .

[midvalleybeagles]

That is a right and wrong statement. No u can't change DNA but u sure can tighten a dog up that is rough. If they can't run the rabbit alone they just run the pack.
To me rough is over running skirting hooking swingingrunning to the front and not having any idea the rabbit turned 20 yards ago.Everyone is entilteled to their own opionon on what type of dog they want but them kind I hate to waste a good bullet on.

Put him in the thickest nastiest thickets u can find by his self. Solo him solo him solo him ans when u think u soloes him enuff go ahead and solo him another 1000 times.

If he is rough and competitive, when he gets out of the thicket, he will kill himself to lead the pack. You can't change DNA by changing his running environment.
Maybe old age will have changed him after a 1000 days of soloing.

[deerhost]

Preacher, I don't think anyone has mentioned speed. I think speed has nothing to do with it. A dog can be slow and still rough. As to overrunning, as i said in my earlier post. I dont mind a dog that will go over the end a bit but shuts up and snaps back to pick up the check at a loss. But where do we draw the line on this. If a dog overruns the line 30 yards at each check and pulls the other dogs over and then they all have to scramble back to to find the loss then that lead dog is creating checks and is rough. Just my thinking. Like has been said here earlier rough is defferent from person to person. I was at a field trial here in New York last spring and the dog that won was over running by 40 yards. Yes it did come back and pick up some checks but it also created the checks. The judges that day liked that kind of dog. It ran the front alot and they didn't mind the overrunning but it was obvious when that dog was was not running in the pack, the run was smoother with less checks. I guess to each his own. Run what you like.....Just my opinion....DH

[hurryup]

When a dog is more driven to outrun the pack than to run the rabbit. Gambles and cuts ahead of the other dogs with out dropping his head.

[fasttrackpa]

Any dog that makes it look difficult to run a rabbit is rough. When you see it you know it, especially when you've seen some very good ones run. The good ones make it look easy, no matter what speed they are

[gwyoung]

I'll make no attempt to define rough, it is extremely common. Someone said it was the opposite of smooth, I agree but now we have to define smooth! You will know rough when you see it, most who have them ( I have had a few myself) won't admit it but they know what rough is as well as the next person ! if you start thinking one is rough , it is! Speed was mentioned pertaining to rough, Speed itself doesn't have much to do with rough and I have often said the ugliest thing in the Beagle world is SLOW and Rough combined, see that often as well. The other thing is you can try all the training " tricks" you want but with respect to his running style, you will never train out of them what was bred into them, I have seen a lot of folks waste a lot of time ( often years) attempting to do this before the light bulb came on!

[Salzer mtn]

I'll make no attempt to define rough, it is extremely common. Someone said it was the opposite of smooth, I agree but now we have to define smooth! You will know rough when you see it, most who have them ( I have had a few myself) won't admit it but they know what rough is as well as the next person ! if you start thinking one is rough , it is! Speed was mentioned pertaining to rough, Speed itself doesn't have much to do with rough and I have often said the ugliest thing in the Beagle world is SLOW and Rough combined, see that often as well. The other thing is you can try all the training " tricks" you want but with respect to his running style, you will never train out of them what was bred into them, I have seen a lot of folks waste a lot of time ( often years) attempting to do this before the light bulb came on!

The best post on the topic of rough. gwyoung is a man of knowledge and a statesman of the highest quality.

[bunnybuster88]

I'll make no attempt to define rough, it is extremely common. Someone said it was the opposite of smooth, I agree but now we have to define smooth! You will know rough when you see it, most who have them ( I have had a few myself) won't admit it but they know what rough is as well as the next person ! if you start thinking one is rough , it is! Speed was mentioned pertaining to rough, Speed itself doesn't have much to do with rough and I have often said the ugliest thing in the Beagle world is SLOW and Rough combined, see that often as well. The other thing is you can try all the training " tricks" you want but with respect to his running style, you will never train out of them what was bred into them, I have seen a lot of folks waste a lot of time ( often years) attempting to do this before the light bulb came on!

Me and GWyoung hasnt seen eye to eye in the past, but i must say i totally agree with what he has said. train and solo him as much as you want, you may polish his skills, but genetics will always surface to the top.

[Chimney Rock Kennel]

Rough is when your out in the field running dogs and the pain hits and you gotta go and then you realize the only thing you have to wipe with is a saw briar (now that's rough). JMO of rough Eddie

[warddog]

I'll make no attempt to define rough, it is extremely common. Someone said it was the opposite of smooth, I agree but now we have to define smooth! You will know rough when you see it, most who have them ( I have had a few myself) won't admit it but they know what rough is as well as the next person ! if you start thinking one is rough , it is! Speed was mentioned pertaining to rough, Speed itself doesn't have much to do with rough and I have often said the ugliest thing in the Beagle world is SLOW and Rough combined, see that often as well. The other thing is you can try all the training " tricks" you want but with respect to his running style, you will never train out of them what was bred into them, I have seen a lot of folks waste a lot of time ( often years) attempting to do this before the light bulb came on!

gwyoung hit the nail on the head BUT I'm afraid some of these professional beagle "trainers" will be able to turn them bumper car style rabbit runners into oval track runners that have found their groove. Seems it matters not how mother nature built that vehicle a good "trainer" can "train" them any way they want em.

[briarhopper]

A dog is born with the tools it's given thru genetics. I think there is very little we can do to change it. The best we can do is do some research before buying a pup. Research the line and go watch some run. Most important is to research the person doing the breeding. Find out what he likes because once the pups are born we have no control over how they are going to run.....dh. Actually I think we do more harm then helping sometimes.

Well put.

[PREACHERS KENNEL]

Preacher, I don't think anyone has mentioned speed. I think speed has nothing to do with it. A dog can be slow and still rough. As to overrunning, as i said in my earlier post. I dont mind a dog that will go over the end a bit but shuts up and snaps back to pick up the check at a loss. But where do we draw the line on this. If a dog overruns the line 30 yards at each check and pulls the other dogs over and then they all have to scramble back to to find the loss then that lead dog is creating checks and is rough. Just my thinking. Like has been said here earlier rough is defferent from person to person. I was at a field trial here in New York last spring and the dog that won was over running by 40 yards. Yes it did come back and pick up some checks but it also created the checks. The judges that day liked that kind of dog. It ran the front alot and they didn't mind the overrunning but it was obvious when that dog was was not running in the pack, the run was smoother with less checks. I guess to each his own. Run what you like.....Just my opinion....DH

I guess I haven't seen any rough slow dogs ,they bore me so bad I wouldn't watch it lol. but I guess there are slow rough dogs. but I have seen a lot of rough fast dogs .terribly rough. always going for the front no matter what it took and how it messed the races up.

if a dog overruns the line 30 yards barking and pulls the other dogs with it . it aint rough its stupid lol. ..no brains. where to draw the line . that's each his own there as to what he will put up with,.

I strive to have all my dog run together as a pack working together.. within each line of dogs there are dogs that excel and others that are culls.it is our job to fix that problem ....

[Newt]

If a dog overruns the line 30 yards at each check and pulls the other dogs over and then they all have to scramble back to to find the loss then that lead dog is creating checks and is rough. I guess to each his own. Run what you like.....Just my opinion....DH

True, but...
If the pack is running the line and not running the lead dog it should stop or turn with the line of scent. That sure makes the lead dog look like the idiot that it is.


Postby fasttrackpa » Thu Jan 23, 2014 3:04 pm
"Any dog that makes it look difficult to run a rabbit is rough. When you see it you know it, especially when you've seen some very good ones run. The good ones make it look easy, no matter what speed they are."

True, IMO.

[NorthBranch Rummer]

Every time I hear the word "Rough" It makes me think of a dog that I used to love watching at the trials back in the late 90's early 2000's! I believe his name was Clyde River Rambo.