Akc vs LP hunts

[brad stewart]

Born again my

[JCM]

Labels is what's wrong with field trialling in general. There is good and bad in BOTH formats as well as all the other formats. I've seen great dogs in both lose and I've seen bad dogs in both formats win.

I agree 100%. In fact, your dog is one that I was thinking about when I wrote my comment. I saw Lucky at a winner's cast at an AKC trial and in the finals at the ARHA World Hunt. Although the scoring is different, dogs that can compete and win in one format will compete and win in the other. Reggie is another example of a dog that rose to the top in both format. In the last couple of years, WFO has proven how possible it is for dogs to be competitive in more than one type of trial.

It's not about the association, it's all about having good dogs.

[JCM]

As far as comparing AKC to Little Pack is like comparing the NBA to the D League or the MLB Majors to AAA Minor League baseball!!! Similar in some aspects of the game but titles mean more in the Big Leagues!!! Really no comparison if you ask me.

If you are going to make fun of Little Pack maybe you shouldn't brag about having a Little Pack Champion and pups out of him at the bottom of all of your posts in your signature. Just sayin . . .

[east80kennels]

Labels is what's wrong with field trialling in general. There is good and bad in BOTH formats as well as all the other formats. I've seen great dogs in both lose and I've seen bad dogs in both formats win.

i agree with that 100% ive been on both sides of the fence looking out and looling in lol.

[east80kennels]

i understand what the lp is looking for but what exactly is the akc trials looking for and how do they do there scoring ect.. why does the akc not break down the scoring like lp does and explain what they saw occur after each so called rabbit that has been ran. i mean a man kinda wants to know how he is standing so long in a trial. wouldn't you wanta know, how your hound was fairing scoring wise!!!

[Casey Harner]

The ARHA World Hunt to me is like March Madness. Some of the best teams in that tourney get beat by no name Cinderella teams. Same thing with the World Hunt, a no name dog can go in there and steal the show and some top dogs that everyone has heard of can be beaten within the first round.

I have only been to a few Midwest hunts, local ones and in the past years I've noticed a different style dog has started winning. Some of the judges like a different style dog and I believe since that has happened making a FCGD probably has gotten more difficult. I also believe that this is the reason field trialers follow certain judges. I don't think that's considering cheating, field trialing in the AKC isn't cheap on the wallet. I've heard numbers from field trialers that they spend on room and board, gas, food, entry fees....ect putting all that money in I would follow a certain judge/judges as well. With that said three wins and a lot of points is hard to come by and it makes a hard road ahead to get a dog an FCGD title.




I agree what Mr. Taylor has said and JCM has said, a good dog will win all formats.

[JCM]

i understand what the lp is looking for but what exactly is the akc trials looking for and how do they do there scoring ect.. why does the akc not break down the scoring like lp does and explain what they saw occur after each so called rabbit that has been ran. i mean a man kinda wants to know how he is standing so long in a trial. wouldn't you wanta know, how your hound was fairing scoring wise!!!

Judging hounds in AKC should be based on which dogs most adhere to the standard as outlined in the AKC rule book. According to the rule book, the dog that runs most like the standard and will most likely better the breed should be the winner.

Realistically though, a lot of dogs in a trial run within the guidelines as explained in the rule book. Then it comes down to the dog that has the most accomplishment which is also addressed in the AKC rule book in judging accomplishment over style.

I understand your point though. A long time ago, when I ran a lot of AKC trials, my biggest frustration was in not having a concrete scoring system. But when I judged, I much preferred being able to select hounds based on their accomplishment and style and not just who got the check like it is in ARHA.

[east80kennels]

i understand what the lp is looking for but what exactly is the akc trials looking for and how do they do there scoring ect.. why does the akc not break down the scoring like lp does and explain what they saw occur after each so called rabbit that has been ran. i mean a man kinda wants to know how he is standing so long in a trial. wouldn't you wanta know, how your hound was fairing scoring wise!!!

Judging hounds in AKC should be based on which dogs most adhere to the standard as outlined in the AKC rule book. According to the rule book, the dog that runs most like the standard and will most likely better the breed should be the winner.

Realistically though, a lot of dogs in a trial run within the guidelines as explained in the rule book. Then it comes down to the dog that has the most accomplishment which is also addressed in the AKC rule book in judging accomplishment over style.

I understand your point though. A long time ago, when I ran a lot of AKC trials, my biggest frustration was in not having a concrete scoring system. But when I judged, I much preferred being able to select hounds based on their accomplishment and style and not just who got the check like it is in ARHA.

exactly, no concrete scoring system, you said it all right there!!!!! you dont know exactly what is going on scoring wise you dont know nothing till they either call you back to come out in the next cast or till they tell you to pick up your hound!!!! and you still do not know what your hound has gotten scoring wise. for example if ya get a strike/jump 40 points a check 25 points!!! so if you run a cast your hound gets a strike jump and 4 checks for example you know where you stand after the cast has finished!!! witch would be 140, so you know your hound has 140 pts and anything anyone elses hounds has has to beat that score to beat you out!! i did not see anything even close to that in that akc trial i attended!!!

[JCM]

exactly, no concrete scoring system, you said it all right there!!!!! you dont know exactly what is going on scoring wise you dont know nothing till they either call you back to come out in the next cast or till they tell you to pick up your hound!!!! and you still do not know what your hound has gotten scoring wise. for example if ya get a strike/jump 40 points a check 25 points!!! so if you run a cast your hound gets a strike jump and 4 checks for example you know where you stand after the cast has finished!!! witch would be 140, so you know your hound has 140 pts and anything anyone elses hounds has has to beat that score to beat you out!! i did not see anything even close to that in that akc trial i attended!!!

But you can't go to one trial and evaluate an entire format. There are a lot of great things about AKC trials. Go to 10, 20, or more trials. Run at different clubs under different judges. Then you may be able to fairly evaluate AKC. I would never expect someone to go to one or two AKC trials or ARHA hunts and be able to judge the entire format. That would be entirely unfair.

I understand your point and that is why I mostly run in ARHA, but that doesn't mean that AKC trials are not valuable. Any time I had a question at an AKC trial, the judges were more than willing to help me understand why my potlicker didn't get to the winner's cast. And they didn't need a scoring system to explain it.

[johns03272008]

As far as comparing AKC to Little Pack is like comparing the NBA to the D League or the MLB Majors to AAA Minor League baseball!!! Similar in some aspects of the game but titles mean more in the Big Leagues!!! Really no comparison if you ask me.

If you are going to make fun of Little Pack maybe you shouldn't brag about having a Little Pack Champion and pups out of him at the bottom of all of your posts in your signature. Just sayin . . .

Why would I not mention my hound is titled in that format? No reason not to, did I take him to the hunts?? A few I did, but mostly was done after I sold him the first time and then bought him back and then got him ready and sent him down south to finish out. Do I go to run little pack? No. Will I go in the future? Yes if close, not gonna drive 4 hours to a hunt any more I did that for a few years.

Born again my

What does my kennel name have to do with what I have stated?? I love those that like to cast the first stones. Its ok like I have said before in here and will say to anyone I got big shoulders and can handle all you wanna throw!!! I stated what I know from personally being there and what I have seen with my own eyes not from hear say!!

[BCBeagles]

Here is what I don't understand, you got to any trial, don't know the rules and you stand back and say "what just happened"??

My approach at an AKC trial(have not attended LP, but would do the same at them) would be to follow closely to the judges, watch the dogs in the cast as closely as I could. I know my dog, or at least I SHOULD know my dog, and what areas it is strong in. Say it's good on big hard run outs with fast pace running, then I would think to ask any score on Blue(just an example of collar color). If my hound is strong in the check area on hard ducking and dodging rabbits, I would look closely at my hound and the pack to see if my hound was doing work.

I don't see that as complicated. I have not been to many AKC trials, but enjoyed very much the ones I attended. I saw my hounds not do much and then get called to be picked up. Walked right past the judge and said, she didn't do anything wrong, but she just wasn't contributing much on that rabbit. He said glad you see that cause most guys just get PO'd about it. Be realistic, if your dog doesn't put in work(ex. Checks, jumps, handling the line) you ought to know that. I don't understand why guys don't know that??

Again, you know your hound, you know there strengths, you see the running, you may hear the running at some points and not see it, but can't you tell by listening and paying attention what may be happening?? Maybe I am way more into watching than some, but I enjoy that part of it so much! It is why I go. To see if mine can perform at a high level with others involved.

I say know your dog very well before you go. Know its good areas an its bad. Then go and stay close to the pack, let the judges work and pay attention to detail so you can learn and know why your dog got picked up or why it has a good chance to move on. No harm in asking, ALL of the AKC trials I attended the judges were more than willing to share what my dog did well or why it did not move on, I just asked. How can you learn if you don't know the rules, if you don't ask questions, and most importantly just stand in the gallery and wonder why ole Billy Boy didn't get called back. Get off the path and watch them work!!!!

Same applies if I ran LP, I would know the rules and ask if I did not. I am sure it would be fun as well.

Good running to all!

[east80kennels]

exactly, no concrete scoring system, you said it all right there!!!!! you dont know exactly what is going on scoring wise you dont know nothing till they either call you back to come out in the next cast or till they tell you to pick up your hound!!!! and you still do not know what your hound has gotten scoring wise. for example if ya get a strike/jump 40 points a check 25 points!!! so if you run a cast your hound gets a strike jump and 4 checks for example you know where you stand after the cast has finished!!! witch would be 140, so you know your hound has 140 pts and anything anyone elses hounds has has to beat that score to beat you out!! i did not see anything even close to that in that akc trial i attended!!!

But you can't go to one trial and evaluate an entire format. There are a lot of great things about AKC trials. Go to 10, 20, or more trials. Run at different clubs under different judges. Then you may be able to fairly evaluate AKC. I would never expect someone to go to one or two AKC trials or ARHA hunts and be able to judge the entire format. That would be entirely unfair.

I understand your point and that is why I mostly run in ARHA, but that doesn't mean that AKC trials are not valuable. Any time I had a question at an AKC trial, the judges were more than willing to help me understand why my potlicker didn't get to the winner's cast. And they didn't need a scoring system to explain it.

right i understand totally u can't judge a book by its cover sometimes, but they should have a scoring system you'll understand fully!!! a first impression is worth everything!!! i mean i'll attend more but they need to get a system where every man understands whats going on!! i'd go on a limb and say that is a lot of the reasons there arent as many that does not attend the akc trials, they simply dont understand the rules, and understand the scoring systems they have!!

[johns03272008]

I have judged dogs from sun up to sun down for clubs both derby trials and license trials so any of you that wanna say dogs are to rough or to wild or judges are cheating or judges didn't give you a fair shake because they didn't know you blah blah blah, get off your key board butt and go judge and stop complaining. To many tailgate sitting 2 day running 3 hours a week crying kennel blind babies on here and in the trial circuit that's what makes it no fun for anyone!!! I have seen a few very good judges refuse to judge because of people like you!! Wanna yell at them tell them they wouldn't know a dog from a hole in the ground cry cry more Cry's. If you don't want someone's opinion on your hound for that day then stay home and go brag up your own hound in your own pond and let it be the world beater by your house!!! Do I think AKC is better than Little Pack. Yes that's why I run AKC do I think its perfect. No but I feel AKC is a more deserved title. Do I have little pack Champ, Yes yay for me, is he finished in AKC. No but he suits me and has placed a few times.

[BCBeagles]

Why does it have to be "scored" can you not watch the race and see what dogs contribute to the race the most? Not being a jerk just asking?

Blue collar picks up a check, Red collar swings wide and pulls pack, Green Collar holds a line while Red swings out, White is me tooing in the back.
What dogs have "score", Blue and Green. Not that hard to understand, but I want to do my best to see what is happening. I like to know where my hound may be positioned.

Just an example.

[NeilKimbrel7]

I guess gun hunters don't know what the best dog in their pack is....without a diffinitive scoring system and all. Lmao