For those of you that have built and own a starting pen

[J.C. Blair]

This question is aimed at some of the folks that frequent this board that own enclosures. I own about 15 acres in the country and I am planning on building about a 2-3 acre pen to start my own pups and also for the public to generate some extra income for my family. Any specific pointers you could mention, material costs, tips on building, or things to consider when building. I live in the central KY area close to the I-75 and I-64 split. Thanks in advance for the help.

[rabbitearl]

JC I can help.Make your corner round,and just to start pups and not that big of a pen.I would go with tame rabbits.I would go with wood post ever 15 ft and just one nail to the post for the COATED WIRE.Remember one nail.Deer hits it want mess the wire up that bad.Good luck and I hope you enjoy the pen as much as I have my.Build my first one in 87.

[baj]

I will add to what rabbit earl said, run a strand of barb wire just a few inches above the fence and that will help to keep the deer from breaking down the fence when the jump across it. I didn't do this on mine and now i wish i had.

[rabbitearl]

That is very true baj.I forgot that.

[rackhntr]

What is the minimum size a starting pen should be to start a couple pups at a time?

[cjones]

Not trying to hijack your thread Chad but this is a question that will benefit you also. What do you guys do for rabbits? I like most people would prefer wild rabbits but there is no way to catch enough to keep a pen going. So what rabbits do you use and where do ya get them?

[cris axtell/coal hill ken]

First I would make a lot of cover , brush piles and feeders to bring in the wild rabbits then make it as big as you can. I need to replace my fencing because it's 14 yrs old and I'm going to leave part of it open for a wile and let the wild rabbits move in. My pen is 5 acres and I wish I could make it bigger. I raise my own rabbits I cross bread for starting. I have a friend that has a 17 acre pen and it becomes over populated with wild rabbits.

[jim matuszewski]

I don't have a pen been to a real good one a few times he has a live wire running on the outside of fence post 6" of the ground for fox and such and another live wire about a foot over top of fence for deer.also has preditor lights for owls.sez the deer don't like the lights either

[littlewoody]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hT47Xw6se0

[dhoundman]

Most inportant controle the flee and tick population. Step one keep a mineral block (the brown once with sulffer in them) all year round and keep it under a water proof material the big the better. That will help keep the deer away. With out it all the rabbits will die over a short time period. The sulffer gets in thier blood and help fight of tick and flees.
Second keep sand some where just at the edge of cover so they can roll in it that helps keep off ticks and flees. In the dry season you can put seven five dust in the sand and that help a lot. Also in the dry season when tick and flees are at thier best you can spreed flee and tick killing pelets on the ground that will make the baby bunnys stay a live.
As far as birds from the air you can put a C.D. on top of wood post and when the sun is shine that will stop day time bird from getting so meany. The refelction makes it hard to see so they not as quick to spot the rabbit. Crazy i now but it works.
At night you need to buy the red flashing light they sell them just for stop all night hunters (such as wild dogs, owles, foxs, and so on) alsohelps keep deer down does not stop them but they don't like it.
Plant alfa , wheat , and clover not a lot just sowe it around in small area not all in the same place. Buck rabbits will fight for their spaces so give them all a different place to eat. Less preasure the better. Also in the early spring the doews need salt to pruduce milk out it by the mineral block. If you have a hill put very thick cover thier and put a fence to keep the dogs out that is your nursery all does with babys and the very little rabbit go till they are grown.
When making the shape of the been keep the corners round and shape it like and L in one corne that should be the high ground for your nursey. (NEVER PUT OLD CHRISMAS TREE FROM THE RETAIL STORES THEY HAVE A SPRAY ON THEM THAT WILL KILL THE RABBIT IF THEY CHEW ON THEM) Becarefull on the brush you stack if it is board keep them 2 ft. off the ground that will help keep down the rattle snakes that it babys. Once every two years in late summer burn the old brush and bring in new that help keep down rattle snacks and flee and ticks. Keep the burned spotts small and the rabbit will roll inthe dust to get off flees and ticks.
YES THIS IS A LOT BUT IF YOU FOLLOWE THIS YOU WILL NEVER HAVE TO BUY RABBITS OR USE SAWUANES AND YOU'LL HAVE THE BEST STARTING PIN FOR MILES. NOT SOME OF THIS JUNK THAT IS OUT THIER. THEY TURN OUT A LOT OF JUNK DOGS BECAUSE OF THE STARTING PIN. WHERE IF DONE RIGHT THIER WOULD BE A LOT MORE GREATER BEAGLES OUT THIER.

[rabbitearl]

dhoundman,that is so true about the flee and ticks.I ve never done it but in pen 5 this summer a guy went in there and spray in the path and what he could and guess what.It really help out.They had rabbits this fall were the other pen did not.I ve always said flee and ticks was our biggest thing on rabbits.

[rabbitearl]

Oh dhoundman thanks for the INFO.THANKS

[J.C. Blair]

Thanks for all the advice fellas. Appreciate it a lot!

[Shady Grove Beagles]

I have run in a lot of pens and they have some good advantages and some not so good.I belonged to a beagle club in New Hampshire that had a 125 acre and a 90 acre running pens and a 25 acre starting pen.Here in Tn. I built a 5-6 acre pen.
I would say that the best thing is if you can build your pen on acreage that is ALREADY good rabbit habitat you will be way ahead of the game.Many pens get built on what ground is available and not necessarily good rabbit cover.If that's the case you will have to spend a lot of time and effort on building brush piles,planting feed strips,clearing or planting cover,protected feeders,etc.
A good pen that meets the rabbit's needs will hold rabbits.A poor pen that doesn't and you will be hard put to keep rabbits in it for very long.
Build good rugged corners that are braced and run your fencing from the corners.Use a fence stretcher and pull it as tight as you can than start nailing it to posts every 10-12-feet.
Use a good rugged wire for your top and hog ring your fencing to it.Without a strong top wire trees,big branches and deer will knock it down and sag it. I would clear a path 10 feet wide all around your perimeter before you put up your fencing.Keep this cleared on both sides of the fence or you'll end up with stuff falling on your fence or growing a tangle all over it.
Run an electric wire around the top.If you don't the four legged predators will find out in a hurry that you're offering a captive dinner and they can go over a fence like it's not even there.What you do about the hawks and owls is your business but be aware they can clean out your pen in a heartbeat if you don't have some good cover.
As far as the rabbits in the pen go.I don't have any use for the tame/domestic rabbits.I've tried them all from San Juans,Knotheads and crosses.They have no stamina,no natural ability to escape pursuit,are slow of foot and give off way more scent than a wild rabbit and end up getting sight chased as much as anything.What does that end up teaching your pups?? I don't believe there is any substitute for wild rabbits! I've had 14 week old pups that would run the domestic rabbits down and kill them one after another.
If you have a good pen your wild rabbits can survive and thrive if you don't pound them to death.Rabbits can and will die from stress/exhaustion if you don't give them a break.
As far as size of your pen it all depends on what you are going to use it for.Introducing real little pups to their first rabbit scent,starting 6 month old dogs and getting them circling a rabbit or do you want to be able to run grown dogs for conditioning,etc.? I would always go with as big a pen as your acreage and finances allow.Little one or two acre pens lend themselves to a lot of sight chases,the rabbits often just run around the fence line,there is so much scent that it's often confusing and pups just race around with their heads in the air barking like idiots. Your cover will get beat down quickly in the little pens also.
Don't over stock your pen.Some guys think more is better but that's not the case.I've been in pens that had so many rabbits in them that the hounds just ran around like fools sight chasing and switching from one rabbit to the next. And folks wonder how a pen can screw up a dog?I'd much rather have fewer rabbits.
If you're running in a pen that is 100 acres or more than it's not that different than running on the outside but be aware that a lot of pen running can have some adverse effects on you hound as a gundog.
As always JMHO.

[chris1971]

Chad I built a small starting pen about 3/4 of an acre and it has been good to start little pups. In the spring and summer my cover is real thick and I keep paths mowed and spray with my sprayer mounted to my 4 wheeler for ticks. Trust me you will too after you try picking off those little suckers or end up getting sick from a tick bite. I did not spend the money on the front end and now I regret it but at the time I did not know. I bought 4 foot wire instead of 6 foot. Bad mistake! Older pups will jump this and it gets a little old chasing them down. Also I did not round the corners and that has been the "catch spots" for the pups. I would also not mow the perimeter all the way around. What I have noticed is that my rabbits now will run around the outside and that is not good to make the pups hunt. They tend to do more site chasing. I have started mowing zig zag paths and found that better. Also water in the summer. I have a kids pool half buried that I fill and keep clean. Rabbits get most of their moisture from the dew but at times there is not much dew. I have a few 25 gallon barrels that I sliced in half and cut a small hole in one end. This will give the rabbits some place to get away from the pups when they are tired. Make sure to brush over it to help in stay down and camo it. Good luck with it because it is a ball starting pups. I enjoy that as much as anything when you see that Light Bulb go off.