Shuuting Off Scent

[Lone Pine Beagles]

A doe rabbit is covered in fur, yet has very little scent after she gives birth.
If she sits tight a predator can walk right past her without knowing.
Run with your buddies in late july and the most common excuse is "must be a doe".

I am shocked that so many have never realized that rabbits...when spooked on the run leave less scent?
Those that haven't seen it will hopefully watch for it now and be able to identify it.

Food for thought:
A jumped rabbit on bare ground generally leaves decent scent.
But a jumped rabbit in snow with single digit temps sometimes takes a hundred yards to warm up good.

[Newt]

Well guys Ive talked to a old vet about this and I think Ive got it figured out! When the rabbit gets a sudden scare it sends its body into shock! For a few seconds its adrenaline kicks in and everything else except its legs shuts down! Scent glands stop producing scent to conserve energy for the escape!

Would you give that Vet his Houndsman Membership Card.

[rabbitearl]

I ve always though the rabbit was running cause he was scare.an the shot of the gun was cause by gun powder. Just don t believe a rabbit running and the dogs come to a lost was due cause a rabbit can stop its scent anytime he wants too. Well I guess I was wrong. Want be my last.

[Casey Harner]

Well guys Ive talked to a old vet about this and I think Ive got it figured out! When the rabbit gets a sudden scare it sends its body into shock! For a few seconds its adrenaline kicks in and everything else except its legs shuts down! Scent glands stop producing scent to conserve energy for the escape!

I wish I had that mechanism, for some odd reason if I get scared or go into shock mode I seem to leak a little scent out as well, it keeps most people and some animals away.

On a more serious note, look at some animals in the animal kingdom, an octopus will spray out a black ink to escape predators, skunks use nasty spray to evade predators. There are lizards who shoot out poison liquid from their eyes.

I do believe this could be true for rabbits, since they get ran down and shot, or killed by other predators.

[gwyoung]

parker7 yes you are, glad you mentioned it! If scent gets stronger in one direction does it also get weaker in the other, I would have never considered something like that. In 40 years of running hounds that never crossed my mind! You certainly answered that question to the satisfaction of thousands of houndsmen !!! ( have you any experience with sarcasm!) Keep at it guys, your knowledge will increase , keep in mind you will irritate some while you are at the point you know it all, but not me. I always get a chuckle out of the innocent answers and mistakes of the Novice, I understand it is not a lack of intelligence on anyone's part but a lack of experience and it most cases interpretation ,( some of us though we "look" at things for years we really don't "see" them! Don't cut it off now ! Scent gets stronger in one direction, I like those deep answers like that, it at least shows that in your mind there are seeds sown, in the years ahead I hope they bloom and come to fruition, and I have no doubt that they will. In the meantime, I really do enjoy your innocent attempts and harbor no ill will at any time, keep 'em coming! Thanks!

[gwyoung]

NEWT, you still saying it is because those who have witnessed it for decades have never seen nor owned a good hound , you know hounds like you obviously have. Newt, keep at it and at some point you will realize what is being talked about is not a lack on the part of the hound ( all hounds are susceptible) it is a lack on the part of the man, the man who can't recognize the failure of hounds under the circumstances being discussed, Blame it on the hounds Newt, I guess that is easier to swallow than accepting the fact that just might be a lack not of the hound but the hunter. I am not saying this to be unkind. I honestly don't think you have the experience, this of course does not make you a bad person and I don't think you are, I would earnestly like to help. There has got to be some knowledgeable houndsmen in your area that will allow you to go afield with them, this is always my recommendation to those who are in the basic knowledge stage as you appear to be, to help them along. I know at your age you may find it embarrassing to have to perhaps even ask some of the younger folks for help, but get the knowledge where and yes when you can, I say. It is better to ask for help at any point that go without the knowledge for the remainder! Good luck, and you might learn more than the question at hand as you travel afield with the Houndsmen and women out there!

[warddog]

Well guys Ive talked to a old vet about this and I think Ive got it figured out! When the rabbit gets a sudden scare it sends its body into shock! For a few seconds its adrenaline kicks in and everything else except its legs shuts down! Scent glands stop producing scent to conserve energy for the escape!

Well, well, well here's an answer real close to my theory. Now, please bear in mind I do NOT profess to be a trainer of rabbit dogs but do hold to the belief that the ability to run rabbits is a God given ability as are the mechanisms instilled within them for survival. It is my belief that this ole vet hit the nail on the head in that when the rabbit is spooked it looses control of all the normal involuntary actions for a period of time. I liken it somewhat to when people sneeze or cough and at that very time they lose control of all other bodily functions. If you don't believe this then try to breath in when coughing or have diarrhea and get a sneezing spell. The coughing and the sneezing are also things within themselves that are uncontrollable as is the results when they happen to an unprepared individual. AGAIN, only my theory or opinion as I have never lived a single day inside the skin of a rabbit or a hound pursuing one to have trained either in survival skills. Both are actually trying to do what every living organism does and that is survive. In their quest to survival and actually survival of the species mother nature has equipped them with many attributes for doing so. Some voluntary but many involuntary. In nature only the strong survive and the little guys at the bottom of the food chain must have additional inherent attributes to overcome being at the bottom of the food chain in which nearly every single predator loves to kill them. There is a reason they bred like rabbits!

[BCBeagles]

Makes too much sense.....lol......some dogs just don't ever lose a rabbit track or scent........

ANYONE that owns that hound, I have enough money to buy it......put up or shut up........


They ALL fail..........


Nature(GOD), made animals to survive.............shutting off scent???, I chalk it up to survival.......predator and prey.....our maker did not mess it up. We as humans try to explain it away......

[Newt]

Makes too much sense.....lol......some dogs just don't ever lose a rabbit track or scent........

ANYONE that owns that hound, I have enough money to buy it......put up or shut up........


They ALL fail..

No but I have owned several, for a short time, that could never circle a rabbit.

[Parker7]

Gwyoung their is no need for deep answers as you call them. I like to keep it short and sweet, or keep it simple. I try not to over think things. An now I find myself cought up in this topic with you that has turned into taking stabs at each other an that's not really who I am. I still find this topic hilarious but I'm tappin out. I would love to drop a pack of hounds on the ground with you sometime though and we could share some more wisdom. Just shoot me a pm

[adirondackjoe]

hey guys,
if its true the sent shuts off, when exactly does it turn back on? and why? i still think its the gun power.

[Newt]

GW, when I was a young man I had dreams of becoming a great houndsman. However, after reading this thread, I've come to realize greatness is not possible for all of us. There is only one Michael Jordan some of us have to be content with being "Rudy". You have set the Bar so high with you stature.
I'm humbled. Maybe I will give up Beagles and start raising Chihuahuas.

[Alabama John]

In nature, many things give off no scent when they have young and neither does the young. Some even change color or looks somehow to hide themselves better. If this wasn't so, no rabbit, quail, or any thing that builds a nest would ever raise any young. Even a turtle will dig a hole to bury its eggs in to hide them.

Nothing would smell as strong as a nest if nature didn't help hide the sight and smell of it.

Rabbit does do not smell as strong when they have young.

Opposite of males (bucks) smelling much stronger when they are breeding so beagles run them better and faster in spring and summer.

Don't have to make this complicated, just use common sense.

[S.R.Patch]

The young have no scent because their scent glands are not developed yet to produce and emit the oils.
The mothers recognize their young because they take-on the mothers scent.

This brings us to another question, just what "is" the scent that the hounds run?

Just what is the scent that the young take-on, that makes them recognizable to the mother,...but yet, she doesn't want to contaminate them with the same scent the predators search out to find and eat.

Most wild things I've raised, the surrogate mothers accepted after the adopted young had once fed from their milk. Is it the scent emitted from the body after the feeding on a mothers milk that makes them recognizable and accepted by the surrogate mother? We know the nest is kept mostly scentless so as the predators can't find it, or a scent of interest does not draw them to it.

So this leads me to believe, there are different scents involved here,... all with different meanings and interest to each type animal,...ie. what a mother looks for, and what a predator looks for.

To get a rabbit to take (adopt) another's young, you must stifle her scenting ability and make a cover-scent to make all the babies in the nest smell alike, till they have all fed from the mother. We've always used vanilla extract, rub a dab on the mothers nose and a dab on each of the babies with your finger. She will not be able to tell the difference between them for a time and they will nurse and take-on her scent from feeding. She will then continue to take care of them from then on.

I believe there are different scents involved because, rabbit droppings interest hounds, but it is not the scent they run. A torn open gut of a rabbit interest hounds, but it is not the scent they run.
If the scent they run is changed or mask by the rabbit in an unconscious natural effect triggered by extreme fear, like Casey said, seepage or adrenalin's effect on the molecular composition of the scent hounds run, that would explain the temporary loss of the hunted scent hounds search for...imho

[gwyoung]

Newt, I never set the bar, it was set long before I. Hound knowledge can be thought of as never ending ladder. Some of us are simply on a higher rung than others, some are much further up the ladder than I, but no-one can reach the top! And we all started at the bottom. Why give up beagles Newt, when all that is necessary to elevate you up the ladder is a little help. I know a couple of "Houndsmen" in Tennessee ( I think that is where you are at) that I believe would help you. I think it is right to ask you first, If they were agreeable to take you " under their wing" for a bit would you be up for it! perhaps you all live close enough to one another to make this happen, what town do you live in? I think that one should offer help and solutions, you could learn a lot from them, I have read your back posts and though you could use a good bit of help you have a some of the basic knowledge, my offer of help, what do you say? And as far as raising Chihuahua's Newt, do you think that would would start out at the expert level there? probably not, you would probably be in worse shape with them than you are with beagles, as you do have some basic knowledge with beagles, but perhaps you have some prior knowledge of Chihuahuas, I don't know! Just saying' stay with what you have been doing, and if you never progress beyond the basics, big deal, the Sun will still rise in the morning! Let me know if you have the time or the inclination to step up, I will talk to them on your behalf.