Shuuting Off Scent

[Newt]

I never claimed to be a "houndsman". Who defines a houndsman. Are the rules for being a houndsman clearly defined and if so by whom. I know a little about a lot of subjects but I'm not a Master of any.
I have observed that wild animals have an uncanny knack for survival. Once they learn a means of survival they will use it when needed. Once a bear learns how to open a door or trash can they will use it. Once a rabbit learns an escape method, whether it be running down a black top road or jumping up on a log to cross a creek they repeat it. If there is a hole in a wove wire fence they use it. When you clog the hole they will run back and forth looking for the hole. As the dog gets closer in pursuit they will jump franticly into the fence over and over. That escape path is locked into their mind. Once the predator gets close, then they flee to another escape path. If they used their ability to withhold scent to escape, why don't they use it rather than being caught. They know it works, why don't they use it.
That's all.

[rabbitearl]

7934 I have hear the same thing and I understand what you say an it all makes scents.But what I cannot understand is when somebody(HOUNDMENS) can come on here and put people down cause we don t agree with him.I look on here and he is jumping on everybody that say NO.Then talk about how much they don t know about a dog.I was just giving JMO on what I have seen an what I believe.You know he jump all over a man last week about killing a dog and the guy said he was SORRY and he would not stop at this guy still.This guy said he was never coming back on this board and then this man just now talk about how fast he would kill a dog cause it want do like he likes.You know when you cannot give jmo without somebody coming back of how dumb you are.I can agree with disagree but telling how dumb you are about your dogs is the wrong way.

GW I am a nice guy.I also like to be around nice people too.

[Mr. Bowman]

amen to that rabbitearl no point n runing people down just to show how much one "knows" or dont people like that can take there wealth of knowledge and do you know what with it id rather learn the hard way

[likeemfast]

Sometimes and I mean only SOMETIMES ......... When I pass gas it don't smell, Does that mean I can turn off my scent ???

[mybeagles]

I don't think rabbits consciously turn off their scent, but God made something in them that changes when they see humans or face extreme danger. Something happens, because if you have hunted for a week you have seen the no scent phenomanim.

In a similar sense, when you hunt in area with good rabbit populations they seem to run harder and longer. Get where rabbits are scarce and it's like they know they are the last rabbit and quick to hole up.

[Lone Pine Beagles]

Its a defense mechanism.
I've scared the scent off of rabbits for years.

When the rabbit comes around close, stomp your foot to scare it.
If you watch...the rabbits hair will noticeably "twitch" before he kicks in to high gear.

I think that twitch is what shuts the scent off.
The ones that don't twitch didn't shut off as much scent.
The dogs should have a decent check when they arrive.

Why do I do this??
To make my dogs better check hounds!

[Newt]

Rabbit Earl, don't worry, It doesn't upset me, he means well. Like Parker said, its all opinion based on our experiences. People once thought the earth was flat.

[gwyoung]

earl, Get some dogs and run them, after that you may carry a little more validity with those that do. what I would like for you to do Earl, is try not to stretch things so much in the mean time. My post last week is there for all to see. If you like what the other guy was saying that is fine and I can see why. Earl, I didn't jump on anybody, but disagreeing with you seems to cause you to accuse others of doing so. Pretty much what I said in total is that if one has not witnessed this they are a beginner in my book. You know since I am the one keeping count I get to decide who is a beginner or not based in my mind, on what they say. Now, Earl you have the same right if you want to call me a beginner based on what you think you know go right ahead, the difference there is I won't ACCUSE you of " jumping all over Me" I will simply understand that is your opinion. Something you seem to forget. Now you have wanted to make something out of the fact that I cull hounds that need it. I guess you are running me down on that heh, Earl. Well you might consider the fact that you are running a lot of others down who aren't afraid to improve the breed. Of course you may not care about improvement as you actually have none of the breed, and apparently somehow believe culling is a bad thing, This again brands you a beginner in my book Earl! Nothing wrong with being a beginner we were all at your point at sometime, people act like being a beginner is the end of their world. We all get to make this decision about others and whether we say so or not we ALL do it. Newt, A rabbit does not consciously withhold it's scent. it is an uncontrolled reaction. We had this discussion before I think we should look it up as I remember a lot of Houndsmen harking in. I guess for those of us that have witnessed this we simply have hot nosed dogs that won't stay on a check! be careful about saying that Newt as Earl might accuse you of jumping on some of us !

[gwyoung]

Newt, what about the people who have experienced it, why is that Newt, Hot nosed dogs that won't stay on a check? I would really like to hear your answer, Tell the folks who have experienced this time and time again and will continue to experience it, just what is happening, You have never seen it and your dogs certainly have never seen It, so tell us Newt, just what is happening, Do we need better dogs? I am curious about this and I hope my straight forward style does not put anyone off, it is not my intention. Just would like some answers on this one ! In the meantime I will try to pull up the old post, ( might have been on another site ) and see who all believes in this fairy tale of hounds not being able to smell a rabbit in some circumstances after a jump or a shot! Like you say I do mean well, I just don't put any sugar on it as I believe most adults have to much of it in their diets the way it is! but some not getting any sugar get all worked up!

[JCM]

I don't normally like to get involved in this type of conversation but I just find this one hilarious. Let me tell you what I know about this topic gwyoung. Nothing! An that's what you know on the subject. We are all just guessing. I have seen every scenario play out that you can describe but I don't think they hit their scent off button when they want to. lol lol lol Jmo

The next time I skin a rabbit, I am going to take a closer look. If I find that off switch somewhere, I will let you know. I've never seen one before, but maybe I wasn't looking hard enough.

[warddog]

Folks, I can't actually answer this question definitively as after over 50 years of following hounds I've never in that entire time smelled one single whiff of what they are searching for and neither have I trained one to smell the game they were bred to pursue. With that said I will tell folks what I have witnessed time and time again over ALL these years.

1. Dogs, not one but several in a pack, flat out burning a track like they are running a deer with tongues flapping red hot then a shot is taken and they ALL shut up. After watching them for several minutes smelling all over the place BUT not a one of them get any scent, go over a ways from where the shot was taken and sic the dogs on the line.........Bam the race is on again.
2. Same hunt with the same pack on the very same scenting day and conditions, a rabbit is jumped out of it's squat, then again sic the dogs on this big ole rabbit and not a one of them can find the track. Again the ultimate trainer goes aways from the squat to where they know the line is and sic the dogs onto it. Guess what BAM, it's on.
3. Same everything but then another little, bitty very young rabbit is jumped from it's squat. Same situation as the other two in that the entire pack can't get a line from the squat. The trainer goes a distance from the squat and as before sics them onto the known line only to have them boo hoo around and not able to get it going like the other tracks have been ran just previously. they finally get the track moving BUT this one just never does get ran like a red hot deer chase.
4. Another real good day where dogs seem to be able to burn tracks up but the finding of game has been real slow. The pack as one dog that has and will run a deer when rabbit tracks are scarce and fawn deer is jumped from it's bed. The dogs have been hunting for a track for a long period of time and they all wonder over to where the fawn was bedded but never act as though they smelled a single thing so as the hunters walk away from where the fawn went so goes the pack with them.

I certainly am NOT an expert on beagling so I can not absolutely answer why this happens time and time again for over 50 years of observing beagles in the field BUT can say that I'm sure ALL these very same things will be observed again in the future if I continue to follow these little hounds. I also know that I have an opinion of what I have witnessed over all these years BUT not being one of these self proclaimed trainers of beagles I can only offer up what I have personally witnessed, repetitively over the years and then come to an opinion from that.

[mybeagles]

Wardog

+1

[Crow]

After a close call the rabbit is usually traveling a lot faster than the norm. Also generally moving much more erratic. They're leaving the same scent but they're moving faster so less time to leave scent & more erratic means more twists & jumps to work out. Walking the dog down the trail doesn't get the dogs to where the scent "turned back on" it got them to where the rabbit began to run less chaotic. These two things are what I contribute the inability to advance the track. I do not believe a rabbit can just decide to not leave anymore scent for a while, guess I'm a beginner. I think this is another excuse for the dogs when running rabbits to "holes" starts getting wore thin I personally use "lack of dog power" as my go to excuse when this happens to us, but that's just me

[gwyoung]

Sorry newt, You asked a question and I neglected to answer it, If that happens again it means I have simply over looked it and you should ask it again, I don't intentionally not answer questions. Now back to your question, You asked who defines houndsman. Well for GW Young I get to. We all get to do this for ourselves! It takes a lot for me to consider one a houndsman. one would certainly have to go beyond the basic knowledge of hound and quarry to be even getting close to being a houndsmen. Since it is my definition , I get to decide the parameters. I think the fact that some do not have the experience or recognize the fact that rabbits are not capable of being detected by hounds on occasion after the jump or shot are still in the basic stage . Some are so short on experience that they are afraid that some are questioning their hounds nose, not understanding all hounds will have this difficulty. Hope I have answered your question. Some have branded themselves as beginners , once again some take that as an insult,( I don't know why at one time we were all beginners. ) I have never thought that it meant that and have not meant it that way, it simply means they are still in the basic knowledge stage. You say it is the dog, it is amazing that after 40 years of hunting ( some have hunted them longer) that I have never ran across one single dog that never had trouble at these times, much less owned one. Others have ran them for decades and have witnessed the same thing , strange! may need to talk to you about some of your super hounds , not being smart here you say it is the hounds , I say if they don't do this they are super hounds , would like to see some of them in action. especially after the shot and on one when it is jumped by a person. I would be glad to do the shooting but I would have to intentionally miss a few times as otherwise I don't miss, same as other's dogs can always smell the rabbit! now, I do really enjoy these discussions and I think I just heard someone allude to the fact that a rabbit can run so fast that a hound can't smell him and they might twist or turn. o.k. that's what we need more opinions on it. How about this just to help with the theories, he can run a straight line down a straight path after a jump, or shot and on certain occasions no hound can track him before moving thirty or forty feet down the line, Start from that statement! because that is what I have seen numerous times, 'course that doesn't discount the running too fast theory, Scent didn't have time to fall off of him,?? I don't believe I have heard anyone say a rabbit can decide to turn it on or off, great discussion, just on the other side of some here, keep it coming !

[rackhntr]

Just last weekend I shot at a rabbit in thick grass and I thought I got him. When I walked over to where he was there was nothing. I didnt see which way he went but I was sure the dogs that was barreling down on me by then would show me. When they got to the spot where I'd shot at him they just turned off like a light switch. The dogs hunted the area over and couldn't pick up his trail where he left there! My buddy said I just blew the sent out of him! Lol