AKC or ARHA first for meat dogs?

[ray s]

When arha first came out to promote the rabbit dog.Did AKC have anything out for hunting dogs back then or just the walkie talkie dogs.Not putting any dogs down run and like what you want but just wanted to know about the meat dog at trials?Arha was the only trial I seen back then for meat dogs.

This is the original post/question. And it appears to me that a meat dog is synoninous with a hunting dog in the original question. The question seems to be,did AKC have a format for the hunting beagle or did they only promote the type of beagle that walked the line, at the time ARHA was formed?

[Alabama John]

Around here, before ARHA, AKC only had the registered brace trials where the two dogs of the same gender competing with each other RAN a rabbit jumped for it about 10-30 feet of solid track trailing. Most folks on here have never seen what CLOSE track running really is.

No good to hunt with, only trial and enjoy the companionship, lunch, and breeding philosophies.

I raised and trialed those for many years but also had grade dogs we hunted with. We called those grades our gundogs to distinguish between the two. Would of never run them together as that would of messed up our AKC trial dogs.

Interesting to go back and read the names of the famous AKC kennels, they will be back there on all your AKC beagles lineage as all AKC came from that thinking.

[littlewoody]

A meat dog of mine is something i can slay rabbits with , come to a trial and beat ur azz with. Go home clean rabbits drink beer sit back and look at my ribbons..................Period.

What about the 420 ?

[rabbitearl]

Thanks Ray and john for the reply.Thats what I was thinking.In AKC the only trial I hear about was the brace trials and I went to one.Not my kind of dog but really enjoy the fellowship and made some good friends too.

[Mapel Valley Kennels LLC.]

A meat dog of mine is something i can slay rabbits with , come to a trial and beat ur azz with. Go home clean rabbits drink beer sit back and look at my ribbons..................Period.

What about the 420 ?

This post is almost borderline racial. I can reach out and touch alot of guys that hunt. All yes all hunt with there trial dogs.
I dont get what anyone means by meat dog vs trial dogs, good god its the same dog.Lets wear out another 4 pages trying to defend the obvious.Woody nomo 420 days.I started to post a picture of me ,walter sharp, mike webb and steve howard.
In that picture was grch hof cody sharps jackson.grch hof cody sharps mike, grch cody sharps huck, grch switcher hill dottie dee, rch cody sharps bubbis, grch waits ky amy and grch waits ky bill.82 rabbits a half gallon of whiskey and 4 wore out hunters with sun setting in the background. Now not 1 rabbit was shot on the jump . So you tell me trial dogs or meat hounds. Mr obvious.

[kevinpennington]

I agree 100% with u Jimmie. Great post !! Some people just want to argue !!

[Lee Cockman]

U have to understand Jimmie they are running a 4 and 5 speed dog in AKC. The problem is most folks on this board do not understand what Earl is calling a trial dog. They are Brace trial dogs. Not meaning that is a bad way but you can push a peanut up hill with your nose faster than most of these dogs run a rabbit. 90% of what he sees run every day. They run in a 6 or 8 acre pen.

We have 200acre cut overs or even bigger down here in most places. Now take a dog that takes a hour to even make a rabbit turn his first turn. See how many you can kill. Most guys down here thank that they have rabbit dogs and in reality they have BEAGLES!

You are right about one thing they do it just to argue. Guys feed into it and do not even realize you are talking to people that train or run dogs from the tailgate to people that do not even have dogs.

If you want to see what you have go walk behind him for seven or eight hours. Not in a rabbit pen. JMHO

[Mapel Valley Kennels LLC.]

I agree 100% with u Jimmie. Great post !! Some people just want to argue !!

I still got a pic of me you walton and boozy from the day. Hopefully be up to molest some of your wabbits this year.

[Alabama John]

Good point Earl and Lee,

We, around here see AKC dogs differently than most folks from Kentucky. AKC Brace trials are still very popular here. For anyone to find an AKC dog to hunt with, I can't think of a better place to look than Kentucky or Tennessee.

When friends of ours have brought their ARHA or even some faster midwest trial dogs down here to hunt, they always brought rabbit meat dogs and many of them were registered AKC but, also ARHA champions and grands. They hunted and ran just like our grade dogs. Most of them would not win in any AKC only trials of yesterday or even today and that is why ARHA came along, especially for the meat, gun, grade dog to be able to trial. Any AKC dog that won in that format would of been considered a cull by the AKC only folks.

They grade, meat, gun, grade dogs haven't changed, the AKC dogs running in the faster formats like ARHA have changed to be more like the old time grade dogs in physical build, mouth, hunt, and speed.

[sbeagler]

Earl AKC dogs vary depending on what association or federation you run. There are good meat dogs in both and sorry dogs in both just depends on where it is and if the judges preferences that should be hunters but in some parts of the country are not thus want a slow methodical bark every step dog sounds good but gets little pressure on their game in many cases. That's why if judges that arent hunters should not judge.if you see dogs winning and placing that make you yawn waiting on the rabbit or it sneaks by unseen unheard dont ever ask them to judge again. Dont waste your money or green stamps on a fad or novelty dog you wont ever kill much anything but time and keep bz wiping tears where you lost your hard earned money. Sad but true there are people who compete dogs in some areas of the country that dont hunt a lick. Some bore you to death from slow some are idiots and always off the end throwing bunnies away having to be put back on rabbit by a smarter dog. My opinion midwest the northeast, arha and many the southern and northern large paxk clubs have good hunting type hounds for the most part if you pick the right ones to use in a breeding program.

[Jon Gibeaut]

Who remembers the Appalachian gundog association? It was similar to the midwest but with a whole lot more control. Wish it was still around. Judged many trials in that association and seen some great dogs. Hated to see it fold.

[begles]

just like any good thing it always cones to an end. run em while you can

[Pine Lakes]

Good point Earl and Lee,

We, around here see AKC dogs differently than most folks from Kentucky. AKC Brace trials are still very popular here. For anyone to find an AKC dog to hunt with, I can't think of a better place to look than Kentucky or Tennessee.

When friends of ours have brought their ARHA or even some faster midwest trial dogs down here to hunt, they always brought rabbit meat dogs and many of them were registered AKC but, also ARHA champions and grands. They hunted and ran just like our grade dogs. Most of them would not win in any AKC only trials of yesterday or even today and that is why ARHA came along, especially for the meat, gun, grade dog to be able to trial. Any AKC dog that won in that format would of been considered a cull by the AKC only folks.

They grade, meat, gun, grade dogs haven't changed, the AKC dogs running in the faster formats like ARHA have changed to be more like the old time grade dogs in physical build, mouth, hunt, and speed.

I run in the mid-west when I trial and I can't comprehend that anyone would think there is a difference between dogs that are trialed and dogs that are hunted. It is my understanding that the Mid-West's sole purpose is to promote the best hunting dogs. Have I been mistaken for 20+ years? "The object of the association is to: ....encourage and promote the breeding of AKC registered beagles and to do all possible to bring their natural qualities to perfection, and to promote said beagles as hunting hounds."

The original hounds that run in brace trials were gundogs that's why they have common ancestory if you go far enough back. Then some idiot thought it would be nice to have dogs like the current "brace hounds" and a bunch of other idiots looked at him and said "OK". Let's remember that brace is a format just like Small Pack, Small Pack Option, and Large Pack and a good dog should be able to succeed in all formats. Unfortunately we all know that's not the case and I blame AKC for allowing it to happen.

[Lee Cockman]

Pine Lakes I have trialed and ran from NC, KY, OH, MI, AL, IN, SC, TN. I do not mean this in a bad way. But AKC SPO down here is a 4 to 5 speed at best. If the dog leaves the five dogs he or she is running with. with track between there legs they will get picked up. If a dog barks from here to china he will never get picked up as long as he stays with the pack once they are running. Earl has only seen what run in his 7 and 8 acre pens. They are very slow. Not bashing the dogs. If that is what you like great. Not my cup of tea. So no you can not gun hunt those type of dogs. What he is calling a meat dog is more in line with Midwest style hound not ARHA. A lot of ARHA hounds through rabbit after rabbit away. Or only have enough heart to run for a hour or two. I know where there is several at that fits that bill anyways. You guys just do not realize how good you have it to be able to compete with just good ole rabbit dogs. We can only gun hunt our rabbit dogs.

[rabbitearl]

Oh no Lee.That is not the only dogs I ve every seen.I done big back trials here,and if I not wrong your dogs were in the trial.I don t think you have slow dogs or a lot more people around here that comes to my pens and run.Another note.My pens are bigger than 7 ac.Pen 2 is 18 ac pen 4 is 14 ac pen 6 12 ac pen 1 10 ac pen 5 is 6 ac pen 3 2 ac pen 7 is 10 ac.There s a lot of people that comes and run there dogs here and there a lot that don t have slow dogs.I build my first pen in 87.thats when I had meat dogs.cannot understand were you say a slow dog is the only thing I every seen.

Now if anybody wants to have a fast dog trial and see who has the fastest dog I will set one up and lets get down and see who has the fastest dog and it will be judge very easy too.Everyone will see it no ? about it.Want take long to see who has the fastest dog.There s a 65 ac field down the road and we will number the dogs and get in the middle of the field.everybody hold your dogs and let me turn a wild rabbit in front of the dogs and let the rabbit get a 35 yd start then on 3 let the dogs go.First one that catches the rabbit or get to the woods were the rabbit got in.Theres your winner.Now let go back to the pens and watch some slow dogs circle a rabbit.