GreenBay Line

[gwyoung]

Shady Grove, Not that I have an axe to grind either, but you are correct, Some folks confuse a kennel name for a line.

[BCBeagles]

I guess I never have and never will fail to give credit where it is due.

Axe grinding or not, if a "Branko" bred hound does well credit to Branko's, Green Bay, credit to Green Bay, Ninja, credit to Ninja,
Shady Grove, credit to shady grove. Why do people have a problem with this?

We tend to let our over analyzing cloud our judgement. You breed or pick the pup from the litter, put your name on it title it, and then repeat regularly. I will give you credit, I don't care what "line" you want to call it, call it successful. We all started with someone else's line unless we crossed in a pit bull, or sheltie, or fox terrier, or great dane, or grey hound, or whippet, or rhodesian ridgeback.....etc....etc..... and then created a hound that wins consistantly. Anyone done that yet? We all run beagles, are they a "line", please give credit to that....

Why is it people always question winners? because we want to be one ourselves, sure......just give credit, much more respectable in most peoples eyes.......I wish success for ALL.......

Good running, whatever line you chose....grind on...

[gwyoung]

JIm, No one is failing to give credit at any point. If you feel that Greenbay is a line and I don't that doesn't mean that you are giving credit and I am not! it simply takes less for you to call a program a line than it takes for me, There are Kennels out there that have a longer history of breeding their own dogs than what Greenbay has and you know what I called them kennels, This is not belittling anyone, If you feel that Greenbay is a line than that is fine with me, In my opinion Greenbay is a Kennel, why anyone would think that being a kennel is a bad thing or is insignificant is beyond me.

[duckbuster38401]

Line kennel what ever it is I like Butkus dogs! That's just me, Jim if you come across some one wanting to part with a Butkus male let me know. Shady, I'm thinking about taking my Butkus female to one of Pete's males when she gets of age.

[BCBeagles]

gwyoung,

I understand your point and everyone is entitled to there opinion. Lots of good men and women died so we can choose to do as we like and believe as we like....doesn't make it right... people are just quick to categorize..... I wouldn't care if we were talking about any "line", I call it a line you call it kennel, fine by me.

It was a question about a line, or kennel, or name, who really cares. Then we get a detailed description of why it is not a "line", it was about the dogs, not whether or not Green Bay is a line or kennel or name or football team or city.... get my point..

Good running to all "lines", gwyoung's line and shady grove's line, any "line" for that matter.... I truly wish them all success to the fullest!!! Run what you enjoy and take care!!

[littlewoody]

gwyoung,

I understand your point and everyone is entitled to there opinion. Lots of good men and women died so we can choose to do as we like and believe as we like....doesn't make it right... people are just quick to categorize..... I wouldn't care if we were talking about any "line", I call it a line you call it kennel, fine by me.

It was a question about a line, or kennel, or name, who really cares. Then we get a detailed description of why it is not a "line", it was about the dogs, not whether or not Green Bay is a line or kennel or name or football team or city.... get my point..

Good running to all "lines", gwyoung's line and shady grove's line, any "line" for that matter.... I truly wish them all success to the fullest!!! Run what you enjoy and take care!!

Well said Jim !

[likeemfast]

Wether GB is a kennel or line is irrelevant to me, never seen a GB hound run either, all i know is from what ive heard and read, but what i do know is Joe K has one heck of a eye for putting together hounds that will produce good hounds. Im sure there are culls, but everytime i read the hunt results theres another GB hound on the podium. His breeding and training program must be second to none at the present time.

[Lone Pine Beagles]

If you take a close look at the GB pedigrees, most are line bred.
You'll find hounds doubled up in most of his dogs.
GB Eli has a nice pattern of line breeding behind him.

I'd call it a "line". He starts them young, breeds before they FC, and sells shortly after.
All within his own kennel!

He's not chasing the "flavor of the month" but rather putting faith in his own stock.

[Shady Grove Beagles]

Duckbuster.I think a cross of a Butkus female on to either Pete's Driver or Jack would be an excellent cross.Just look at what Paw King's breeding is.You'd be staying in the same direction.
Hey B.C.,who cranked you up?? Read my post.....don't believe I"dissed" anybody.And for the record,there is no Shady Grove line.Where'd THAT come from?

[jim matuszewski]

I would have to agree with lone pine on this looking at pedigree of his field champions seems like a loose line breeding program to me.joe has a lot of confidence in what he is doing that he sells young great dogs,knowing that his other young stuff will replace what he sold.i don't know joe ,met him once,enjoyed it,pretty funny guy.i can only assume these last two point,first is that i'm sure that when he sells these young dogs that he can go back to the studs or get pups from the bitches to keep his loose line going.i also can only assume that if it wasn't for the early lose of his wiley bitch his breeding program would have looked a little tighter and we wouldn't have a 3 page post here on if greenbay is a kennel name or a line of dogs.

[BCBeagles]

If you claimed you had a line of hounds, put your name on them, then I would give you credit.....if I had exposure to your hounds and someone asked about them I would tell them what I had seen....not really in this to question what is a line and what is a kennel name.

Not cranked up at all....no offense intended and none taken, maybe my point was too enthusiastic....LOL.

Question was about the dogs....all I was sayin....I have a ninja bred hound and a litter off of pawking and I like them as well!

if someone gets on here and claims they have a "Shady Grove bred hound" I would support that and not really question it, I guess my view is different than some....Take care and good running to all!!!!!

Headed out now to run a Green Bay hound, a Ninja bred hound, and one I would call a twist of my own choice, what makes it fun, IMO.....

[duckbuster38401]

Yea Shady I think so too. I'm trying to get my hands on another pup or two out if the greenbay line. Hard to find around here.

[JCM]

Question for you guys.What do you consider a "line" as it was posted here in regards to the "Greenbay line"?
When I think of a "line"I usually equate that to some form of linebreeding within a family of dogs.Where one or possibly more outstanding producers/performers are the so called "cornerstones" of that line over a period of generations. When talking about a "line" one should also expect to see great consistancy in both looks,actions and ability. As in Branko's line,Frank Reese's Gay beagles,Mel Faust's Satsuma beagles,John Otruba's Woodstock Granpy hounds,etc.
I.F.C. Greenwell's Reggie has been a quite popular stud over the past six years or so but in my opinion there is no "Reggie" line of hounds at this point.Maybe 10 years down the road we might refer that way but I wouldn't now.
First off let me say that I have absolutely no ax to grind about Greenbay kennels or dogs.I don't know Joe Kuklenski and have never even seen a Greenbay hound.
I will give Joe K. all the credit in the world for having a "breeders eye" in knowing what crosses to make to produce what he wants.He also must be blessed with more time and resources to devote to the dogs than most of the rest of us.His success is unquestioned.
But from a breeding stand point I would have to take exception that there is a "Greenbay line" at this point.
Look at the pedigrees on many of the "Greenbay" dogs and give credit where credit is due. Shooter= Ranger Dan which is Canadian Maritimes hounds and Joe Wingate from N.C.and bottom of Shooter is Birch Lake.
Butkus = bottom side is dominated by Branko and Pacesetter.
Paw King= bottom side has I.F.C. Maravic's Blue Ninja 4 times and his litter mate sister once and a shot of Striker.
Many of the other Greenbay hounds being campaigned with success are out crosses to Mike McPherson's Hunt Em Up kennel in N.Y.,Joe Gamache's NLPC Nemasket's Big Spring in Massachusetts,Snow Run kennels,stud by the name of Best of Whitestone and Perry Piacentino's Adirondak Mtn.Tiki from N.Y.
Greenbay has become popular with many beaglers as they end up in the winner's circle alot.A no brainer.Obviously Joe K. knows how to breed and train some winners.
But in my opinion I would not consider "Greenbay" to be a "line" of hounds at this point.Too many outcrosses to a lot of different dogs.That's why some have made the comments about getting different type of traits from their Greenbay dogs.
As always JMHO.

This is an excellent post. It seems far too often people give credit to a kennel when they are building on the success of others. To me, a line is when you can trace back several generations/crosses within a kennel.

Like many kennels, we have owned some of our dogs back a few generations, but I couldn't call it a line. There are too many outcrosses where I have seen something I liked and bred to it. Maybe 15-20 years down the road I might have a line, but that is a lot of work and a few generations away.

[Harris MTN Magic]

Duckbuster my whole kennel is full of the Green Bay line so there is some closer than you think I have two litters on the ground now out of Eli and all I can say is I like it I love it and I want some more of it

[Competent]

Whatever u guys want ta call it line kennel whatever... Green Bay Eli is he a hard hunting dog?

Harry Jr.