Show Beagles qualify in Hunt Test!!

[gamekeeper]

I have a beautiful show Ch. beagle Ch. Wishing Wells Ted E Bear that I would be glad to breed anyones bitch free of charge ,for those interested in improving confirmation.

[Honey Pot Hounds]

Howdy Gamekeeper! We drive by your kennel on our way to ski every winter. I have a Wishing Well's Beagle too.
That's a nice offer you are making~~ hope folks take you up on it. Can you post a picture of your dog?

[Incahoots]

I personally just don't grasp the concept. Why have the most beautiful hound if it can't run a rabbit hard. If the goal isn't for both conformation and hunt ability then imo it's a wash. At the end of the day that should be what is strived for but some formats ignore the total dog.

[Jack]

Patch knows. Seldom do you hear talk of the slope of the shoulders.

[TC]

The Problems I see a lot of are the Shorter Body No length of rib!!! Real SHORT BLOCKY Dogs Straight legged to a fault no anglulation ect.. Sure they look Great just standing or posing But as far as running gear they aint got it... I have seen these Champions at work in the field and most of them are taking 2 steps to the other dogs 1 well that aint gonna cut it. Add that to the lung area or no rib and they caint last 3 hrs let alone all day

Patch, Jack. Kinda thought that was what I was saying LOL. Without the Proper Angulation Or Lay Of shoulders the dog has a hard time running or running to thier best anyway A dog can have all the heart in the world But if it dont have the proper runnin gear It just has a harder time getting the job Done IMO When they are real strait legged they just hammer on their joints and at some point will break Down now dont get me wrong i aint saying that all show dogs have Straight legs But that thiers go farther to the extreme than most hunting dogs just as a lot of the hunting hounds Are benched legged or have bad hocks same type of thing here

[Jack]

TC I agree with you , but when you see a show hound running chop, chop ,chop that comes from the wrong slope of the sholders and no reach. Thats out of balance anyway you look at it. Unless the balance is changed to the way a hound looks on the set up to show.

[Honey Pot Hounds]

No hound will get very far in the show world with poor movement and I know the same holds true for the hunting Beagle too. We have one Beagle standard for hunter and show handler alike. You hunting folks just need to have hunting desire/ability added to your hounds and we need a little showmanship and polish added to ours.

As I look through my American Beagler magazines I try to imagine what many of the hounds would look like if they were stacked a little better and had a show groom. I think it would be fun to take one and see what could be done.

Incahoots, as much as you may complain about "pretty" that sure is one good looking hound on your avatar.

[DarrinG]

Oliver got on a rabbit immediately, gave chase with good voice, and ran the
rabbit to a brush pile. The judges said they had already graded him and left
me the choice as to whether I would keep running him or not. I got the
impression they were ready to move on to the next hound, so I picked him up. Turns
out it was good enough for first place among the beagles, and he got a perfect
score of 10 on giving voice.

You'll have to excuse my ignorance as I'm not very familiar with the show dog circles, but this was a "hunt test", where they take the show hounds out to the field and they hunt, jump and run a rabbit? How long do they run? Do they only give score on voice?

What does this "hunt test" consist of? No answer on my question the first go around.......... .........thanks!

[DDWBeagles]

There was a similar thread a while back, where someone made the comparision of a fox's build to that of a trial beagle. Their argument was sound and worthy of merit. A fox has short legs, long torso, pointy snount, etc..... yet is very efficient/fluid in movment and endurance. So, I never judge or fault owners who have the "typical trial hound", but personally, I place a lot of weight on looks/conformation. My only gripe with the standard, is the height limit. I like tall dogs, and would love to have a pack full of 16" beagles.

Gamekeeper, I too would like to see a pic of your stud. I own a Lanbur bitch and have been tossing around the idea of having pups this year. A full 15" tri, blanket back would be a dream stud.

[TC]

Darrin I to was curious as to what this test intailed This is all I could find on it.. From What i understand the BAC still has not had sufficient input as to how to set one up for Primarily just the Beagle So they run the TEST by the Bassett Rules I will Post more as i find out more I have sent an Email Off to AKC asking about this there is nothing listed on thier site.
this was Taken From another list..

The test was run under the Basset Hound Club of America rules. (see
http://www.basset-bhca.org/ and look under things to do with your bassett) It was open
to bassetts, beagles, PBGV, and dachshunds. Hounds were run as solo, brace,
or two-couple packs. Hounds were judged on searching ability, line ability,
use of voice, adaptability, and determination. Each category is worth 10
points- an average of 6 with no score below 5 is necessary for a qualifiying score.
All hounds are shot over and must be gunproof for a pass. Solos were given
30 minutes to find and pursue game, brace and packs were given 45 minutes.
The test was held in a 20 acre fenced enclosure which was stocked with san juan
rabbits and a few cottontail.

[/quote]

[Ghostman]

IMO the AKC show ring and breeders of any breed who breed ONLY for conformation while sacrificing ability or traits that the breed was created for have ruined many a good breed!

Classic examples are AKC registered Irish Setters, English Setters & German Shepards...those breeds are useless as hunting dogs and working dogs. In order to get a good hunting setter one must look to the American Field bred/registered lines. Same goes for German Shepards...show breeders have ruined the working abilities of the breed and have created dogs with such steep angulation that they look like they're walking uphill. All the US DoD military working shepards and 99.9% of Police working dogs are German imports. Why? because US show breeders have ruined the breed and there is no working ability left in US bred Shepards.


Why is it that there are so few Dual Champion beagles? Why is it that there so few rabbit hunters that have show lines for hunting dogs? Are show people for the Beagle breed going down the same path as many other breeds and breeding only for conformation while sacrificing hunting ability? It appers so to me.

AKC Hunting tests at a Jr. level are a joke. A dog sniffs the ground, barks a few times, runs to a brush and is awarded a hunting certificate. Come on! LOL

I truely believe in having good/corerect conformation in a dog but what many show breeders consider good or corerect conformation is NOT what is truely required for working or hunting ability. If it were we wouldn't have 85 lb AKC registered English Setters and German Shepards that look like they walk uphill.

[gamekeeper]

Shoulder layback and angulation are two of the first things judged on a show dog these are not the problem,nose and hunting desire are areas show dogs are weak.Don.t do pictures as I am not a computer buff just a dogman,however you are welcome to stop and see the dogs just call the day before to give heads up.The easy thing to do is take a negative approach to these subjects to make progress positive is the way,dogshows and field trials are all just pieces of the pie.
Peter

[Honey Pot Hounds]

Okay, for you fellows that keep complaining about hunting ability potentially being lost in the show hound and why do we have hounds that "can't" hunt... My opinion is maybe they CAN hunt. We don't know if they can or not if we don't hunt with them. There are a lot of pure rabbit stock that can't hunt if I read my American Beagler correctly. HONESTLY, MOST of us show folk don't care much about all that because we don't want to hunt our Beagles. That's the plain truth. Probably not the politically correct thing to say but it is true.

The reason there are not more dual champions is most of us are too busy in one sport (showing) or the other (hunting) and don't have the TALENT, or the time or the desire or the money to do both.

Do I think that hunt is being bred out of the show Beagles? Maybe a little. But then you have folks like TC, Sundown, & DDW that manage to do it all so who really knows.

Maybe someday when my son is older he might want to try hunting with some of my Beagles. As long as he learns how to do it right and train the pups right I'd tell him to go for it.

[LR Patch]

Cindy, You know you might as well be howling at the moon!(lol)
You can change some things some of the time and all of them none of the time.Too each his own.If you feed them and they suite you your there.If they don't suite you that's your fault.
Keep'm running,gunning or showing. Let's all remember our guy's and Gal's that are over there looking out for us.Merry Christmas

[DDWBeagles]

Cindy, you hit the nail on the head. It takes considerable time, effort and money to champion a hound. That statement holds true, whether it's for the AKC show ring or in the field. I don't many of us have the resources to do both.
I've heard Ghost's story too many times. Although there is some truth in his words, I don't apply them that liberally. As far as having few dual champions, that too, is a common stero type. Ghost, I will assume you are talking about AKC dual champions. The fault with that, is even within the AKC, the formats very so much by region/federation that it makes it difficult. The same can not be said about the UKC. ARHA/NKC is doing a pretty good job too.
Whichever end you start from, whether from field ability or conformation, we all should meet up in the middle in the future. I also suggest everyone attend one NBC Tripple Challenge before sterotyping the entire lot. Anyway, I hope everyone has a nice Christmas and Happy New Years.