Too much nose or not enough brains?

[Shady Grove Beagles]

I like a dog with a good nose but,by gosh he better be able to MOVE that track if he's opening on it!I just can't handle a hound that spends much time at all booing around and not getting lined out with it.
I've had a fair amount of experience using hounds with good noses to strike bear off of bait or off a strike box on a moving truck.Walking out a bobcat track with a hound on leash for a mile or two with that night's fresh snow in the tracks until he can open on it.Listening to a coonhound work a hours old feed track up to a run he can tree.
The best of these hounds seldom opened much or at all until they knew what they had and where it went and when they opened they were moving on.
Watching these hounds you would see them get quite animated with tail whipping back and forth,nose to the ground as they coursed back and forth in an ever widening circle.They had excellent noses and let their nose and BRAIN figure out what was going on before announcing it.
Many think that the dog that boos around or pops off repeatedly as they continue to cover the same ground has a "big nose or is cold nosed".I don't agree with that and don't much care for it
I've found that the truely outstanding hounds with NOSE and BRAINS can move the difficult tracks and make it look easy.

[mobeagle]

Alabama John pretty much hit on it IMO. There are dogs who look for game, and there are dogs who look for a track. When you've got a dog who doesnt have a big nose that looks for a track instead of game you've got a problem. Many of the dogs who "dont open until their games up" are the dogs described as looking for game not a track. I also agree it's not a nose thing with those dogs, it's a mindset. I've seen dogs that "look for a track" that will coldtrail that dont run as good as the dog that "looks for game" on a tough running day. What does that tell you? Just because a dog isnt a cold trailer doesnt me he doesnt have a big nose he's just no interested in trailing 5 min behind his game he wants to get up on it and overtake his/her game.

I had a red and white female coyote hound a few years ago that was THE go to jump dog in our group. When she barked there was a coyote on his feet running for his life. I would watch her run across a TRACK and work her tail like a helicopter I knew she had it but she wouldnt boo hoo azz around there messing with it she'd go on and get it on its feet in a timely manner, where a cold trailer would have taken 20min to lift him she took 5, once lifted she had the fastest chop mouth I've ever heard. After lifted even if she fell well behind her game on a tough scenting day she would continue to bark she was only quiet about it prior to jump. We didnt have a better dog on tough scenting days she could hold a track together when alot of dogs wouldnt even know one was there. She clumb out of her pen a week before season opened last year and was run over, I'd take a kennel full of her she had brains and nose and proved it time and time again. I honestly believe she had the brains on a jump to know she could get up on a coyote off the jump better by not barking before he was lifted.

[kjohn2hunt]

Dog can't get on the score card unless he is barking good or bad. All of my dogs will open early but will get the rabbit up and run him. Have gotten beat too many times by a big nose dog while hunting a hot nosed dog. A dog that stands on his head and blows a hole in the ground that dog will leave in a hurry.

[BCBeagles]

IMO, with due respect. Rerunning old lines has NOTHING to do with nose power and all to do with brain power. I am fortunate to have some big nose dogs that can work a tough track and they would only rerun an old line until I could get tritronics on number 2! If a dog does this with consistancy they are lacking intelligence, to each his own but this is my opinion.

My big nose hounds WILL open early, sometimes too much, but it is the trade off for a hound that can make a less than desirable day better. Not meant to be offensive with my post so please don't take offense.

I have thick skin and can take criticism as well. My dogs are FAR from perfect!! LOL.

Good running to all!

[likeemfast]

It goes back to genes.

If a dog is bred to look for a track that leads to a rabbit or bred to look for a rabbit instead of a track to follow.

Amount of nose can be the same. Same with mouth usage. Bred to open on a two day old feeding track or to not open until jumped or close to being jumped.

My how the bluetick Beagles and tree dogs have changed in the last 40 years due to the change in breeding tactics for shorter ears, hotter noses,and field trial requirements.

If this is true,which im not saying it isn't, is breeding a hunting dog to be a track finding hunting dog, wether it be a cold track that leads to a hot track or to a hole, a quality or fault? My personal best hounds, when u dropped the gate, would acknowledge last nites trail with a few tail wags, and go find the game where its currently hiding, not bow wow around on where its been hours ago. They didnt need 5 or 7 tracks to know the direction a rabbit went, they needed one and knew where to go.

IMO, as a gunhunter, it's a fault thats been bred into hounds cause ive had hounds that could hold it together for the rest of the pack that didnt open early and could run spring, summer, fall, and winter. I hunt rabbits not trophy's and i just prefer a hound that doesn't open till the rabbit is up. To each their own.

[Alabama John]

likeumfast,

What we bred for is how you described your best hounds. They have the tail action when they smell a track, then go jump a rabbit and open on it.
What I have found is folks like different type dogs depending on the way they hunt and their territory.

Last night it snowed here which is very unusual and all schools around me are closed for the day. Will melt today and be school tomorrow. Some will get out in this and wrecks are happening all around us.

Dogs or drivers vary depending on where you are.

[Ron Conroe]

any dog with a big nose is gonna have a little extra bark. for them that don't think so bring them to mi and hunt rabbits over them and see how many rabbits you kill. i would dare say you would starve.

[Lee Cockman]

Anybody that thanks you have to have babbling all over the woods to kill a rabbit. Come to NC I will show you that you DO NOT.

Babbling and a big nose is not the same.

Most people do not know the difference. Just saying

Personally a big nose dog with brains I like.

A babbler needs to be feed by someone else or Killed!

[Bunnyblaster]

To me there is a difference between babbling around like an idiot and popping off here and there...........same as always, to each their own. And until you consistently run in the crap we generally get here during hunting season I would be careful to judge. In general the dogs I've had that will "pop off" in better scenting conditions rarely do so in poor scenting conditions. And they are the ones that will get a rabbit up and moving on those bad days when the other dogs can't run one unless they jumped it up hot and even then they sometimes struggle. I'm sure there are those that are near perfect and can do it all just right but unfortunately for me I have yet to own one. So until I do I guess I will have to settle for the times when I get an occasional bark before they start really moving on a track. My dogs are also faaaaaaaar from perfect but I have no problem taking them hunting when I want a nice rabbit supper.

I had a male a few years back that looked like a million bucks on average to good scenting days, had the brains to go with it, used his mouth right. His only 2 downfalls were he could get a little over competitive if ran with a faster hound and he lacked enough nose to run in the poor winter conditions we get up here. This dog never barked unless he smelled the track and there were many times I would watch him go along with the pack and never say a word because he just couldn't smell the track........he went for free to a nice young man looking for a beagle because he was clean and trustworthy.

[littlewoody]

I have two hounds one has a big nose the other is tight mouth paycheck hound. The big nose hound will open early on old tracks. The only way I can tell because my paycheck won't open up until the track is hot . It doesn't matter what the season is . When the tight mouth hound opened get the gun ready.

[mobeagle]

Anybody that thanks you have to have babbling all over the woods to kill a rabbit. Come to NC I will show you that you DO NOT.

Babbling and a big nose is not the same.

Most people do not know the difference. Just saying

Personally a big nose dog with brains I like.

A babbler needs to be feed by someone else or Killed!

I agree wholeheartedly with all of that. I get so sick of houndsmen talking about how cold of a nose this dogs got while working a circle on top of a hillside barking at the moon. We had a guy come up and hunt with us a few years ago the guy was always bragging on how great a nose this dog had and he sent him into a section to jump a yote. After about 20 min of him barking at the moon I sent a nice young female I owned to him he came out in the open about the time she got to him he was still making small circles and barkin every little bit as we watched her get there she hit the track just stopped on a dime found it started whipping her tail lined out never saying a word and about 5min later with him still cold trailing in about the same spot and her having moved on 400 yards working the track she jumped. His dog pulled to her and got in and done a decent job in the race but you tell me wich dog had the colder nose? Would his dog have jumped that yote? I'm certain he would have eventually and if I hadnt sent her in and showed him how a real cold nosed dog SHOULD work he'd have went on and on about how great his cold nosed jump dog is. Two weeks later the guy sold that dog and never looked back. I'm not gona argue with the guys who believe all dogs with big noses bark early, there's no need to argue I know it isnt true I've hunted over plenty of dogs with big noses that have disproved that theory time and time again.

Just a little sidenote here. I'm not saying all the dogs with a big nose that open trail a little have small brains, in fact many people have bred for it and enjoy hearing a dog work like that. It's just not for me so I'm not gona call what another guy likes junk as a whole it just doesnt fit here is how I'll put it. Now those dog that bark in the same spot 20 times and dont progress much that people believe have big noses are sadly mistaken. Those dogs have no nose and no brains, if they had either they'd advance the track in a timely manner either with their nose or their brains one. It all comes together for something special when they have both.

[Rabbithoundjb]

Everybody has their own likes and dislikes, feed what you want. Me personally if a dog opens much before he or she produces the rabbit or opens much without procducing a rabbit well its like Lee said someone else can feed that one.

[Shady Grove Beagles]

Right on with the two previous posts.

[smokedawg]

I currently own 9 hounds and hunt them in different packs of 6 at a time. I only have one hound that I consider to have a real exceptional nose. He will open a little early on a track but will move right up to the rabbit and the race is one. Does it time and time again. He dont run old lines off a shot rabbits, backtrack, or stand there barking in one place on an old track. He generally just finds a rabbit quicker than my others because he can smell a rabbit when nothin else in my pack can. I have seen him throw his head up and sniff the wind and run in a straight line into a thicket and the race is on. Now personally, if I had my way, I dont want a hound to make a peep until the rabbit is up and running but I will tolerate this fault because he produces in short time, time and time again. Also, on bad scenting days when the pack is running bad, he will save the day and keep the rabbit moving with a minimum amount of down time. Some of the things you guys are describing is not a big nose but the result of a pea sized brain. All of my other hounds are bred very similar to this one and I consider them to be good rabbit dogs but the big nosed dog dont ever stay home when we are trying to kill rabbits. He has saved the day too many times for me to leave home without him. On another note, I have seen plenty of tight mouth dogs run the fire out of a rabbit while only barking here and there every now and then. I also consider this to be a serious fault. I would rather have a big nosed dog open slightly early and produce a rabbit than to go try to kill rabbits with one that barks 1 time every 50 yards and slips out silently on checks til they get a lead on the pack. Hard to kill rabbits in these thick cutovers with that.

[mobeagle]

I currently own 9 hounds and hunt them in different packs of 6 at a time. I only have one hound that I consider to have a real exceptional nose. He will open a little early on a track but will move right up to the rabbit and the race is one. Does it time and time again. He dont run old lines off a shot rabbits, backtrack, or stand there barking in one place on an old track. He generally just finds a rabbit quicker than my others because he can smell a rabbit when nothin else in my pack can. I have seen him throw his head up and sniff the wind and run in a straight line into a thicket and the race is on. Now personally, if I had my way, I dont want a hound to make a peep until the rabbit is up and running but I will tolerate this fault because he produces in short time, time and time again. Also, on bad scenting days when the pack is running bad, he will save the day and keep the rabbit moving with a minimum amount of down time. Some of the things you guys are describing is not a big nose but the result of a pea sized brain. All of my other hounds are bred very similar to this one and I consider them to be good rabbit dogs but the big nosed dog dont ever stay home when we are trying to kill rabbits. He has saved the day too many times for me to leave home without him. On another note, I have seen plenty of tight mouth dogs run the fire out of a rabbit while only barking here and there every now and then. I also consider this to be a serious fault. I would rather have a big nosed dog open slightly early and produce a rabbit than to go try to kill rabbits with one that barks 1 time every 50 yards and slips out silently on checks til they get a lead on the pack. Hard to kill rabbits in these thick cutovers with that.

Nothing wrong IMO with the dog you described. You say he produces in a timely manner and doesnt stand on his head, sounds like a nice hound to me. A few barks early is not a fault as long as the time from the first bark to jump is fairly quick.