Gun control or nut job control???

[smokedawg]

I agree with Maple Valley Kennels 100%, just look all around us. The proof is in the pudding!

[bucks better beagles]

Mo Beagler 5000: You got it right. I think I read where this man's mother and he, himself, were regular church goers. It seems they had god in their lives. Who will dare to fathom the mind of god?

[Mo. Beagler 5000]

let god and respecting people in authority back in our lives and that will fix alot of things. // start the class off with prayer each day ....that can only help .

Pray to whom? jesus, budda, allah, the mormon god they think is jesus etc...??? Thats a terrible idea and an illegal one at that.. If you want your kids to be religious, teach them from home. As a licensed minister I think organized religion should be separate from the state. I would be unbelievable pissed off if my kids were forced to pray to allah and I am sure the muslims in my community would be pissed if they couldn't pray to their God creating more conflict.

These shootings have less to do with prayer and more to do with the fact parents are not willing to discipline their kids.\

to JESUS of course , this country was based on being christian and believing in JESUS .. OTHERS HAVE THE RIGHT TO DO AS THEY WISH I SUPPOSE . people like you , beagler 5000 are the reason this country is in such a mess . there is no separation ,or should not be / pray should start everyones day . the lack of prayer and seeking od and fearing of god is why this country is headed to hell fast . i would revoke your license ...your language is a sign you need prayer as well.
Preacher I totally agree 1000%. We as a Country are Reaping the Seed that was Sown sometime back. Keep turning your back on God and take him out of everything, from home too schools. I think its evidence how thats working out for us.

So, when was this "sometime back"? At the time of the revolutionary war only about 12 percent of the population went to church. 12 percent!!! by the civil war it was around 80 percent and over the last hundred years we have decreased somewhat but its still around 60 percent or so that regularly go to church. Compared to other westernized nations thats an astronomical number. In europe its around 2-15 percent depending on the country. So we are actually more Christian than almost any other nation on earth... and we still have these problems.. ITS NOT A CHURCH PROBLEM... Its a PARENT PROBLEM!!

[BCBeagles]

Are you a parent? Just interested. This discussion has really been intriguing to me.

Doing my best with the guidance of the bible to raise my own two, not throwing any stones. For a minister I am really taken back by some of your language and points.

Not arguing, just questioning.

[BCBeagles]

Before this turns to a religious debate, please let me state I do attend church regularly and find myself falling short on here at times with how I address people and in other phases of life as well.

If you go and set in the church and don't really apply then it is all a waste. Discussions at home, as a parent, do just as much as the time in church. I agree that proper parenting would have helped, but you can only do so much with a child. They are all unique and I see that in my own. Maybe this mother tried, obviously not hard enough. Hind sight is 20/20 and none of us are walking around here flawless. I will say take your kids very seriously, you have ONE opportunity to raise them as god fearing and productive people.

[Mo. Beagler 5000]

Are you a parent? Just interested. This discussion has really been intriguing to me.

Doing my best with the guidance of the bible to raise my own two, not throwing any stones. For a minister I am really taken back by some of your language and points.

Not arguing, just questioning.

I had daughter when I was 14... She lives in Ca with her grandma. I was obviously too young to take care of her so they did. She is a pretty well adjusted. But I have had over 400 students and have worked with abused and neglected children pretty much all my life. I was also a youth pastor for 4years during bible college.

I had a super shitty childhood and became christian after getting shot in the face with a 38 as a kid. Blew my jaw to bits... I used to preach on street corners and lived my life in a way that most people wouldn't believe... I fasted, prayed and preached the bible to anyone with an ear hole... Over time I realized I wasnt converting anyone and life kinda happened...

Honeslty, I believe in God Jesus and the bible... I just don't believe I have the right to use my government to force people to believe like I do. If I have to make laws against abortion and gay mariage then I failed as a christian and more importantly we failed as church body.. You mentioned my language.. If I stand before god and the only thing he brings up is my language on the beagle board, then it will be a happy day indeed.

[BCBeagles]

I do agree with government and that it starts with the example we live, not just talk about.

I agree about laws as well, govt regulated seems to just make people want it more, JMO.

Language, IMO, is still a way to show control with how you get your point across to anyone, not just the beagle board folks.
Down off my soapbox please carry on.

Happy holidays to all!!!

[Timmy J]

If a drunk driver hits a school bus and kills 15 children, they dont try to ban alcohol, they blame the person and his actions. Thats the way it should be.
MAN UP and put the blame where it belogs.

[Mapel Valley Kennels LLC.]

Are you a parent? Just interested. This discussion has really been intriguing to me.

Doing my best with the guidance of the bible to raise my own two, not throwing any stones. For a minister I am really taken back by some of your language and points.

Not arguing, just questioning.

I had daughter when I was 14... She lives in Ca with her grandma. I was obviously too young to take care of her so they did. She is a pretty well adjusted. But I have had over 400 students and have worked with abused and neglected children pretty much all my life. I was also a youth pastor for 4years during bible college.

I had a super shitty childhood and became christian after getting shot in the face with a 38 as a kid. Blew my jaw to bits... I used to preach on street corners and lived my life in a way that most people wouldn't believe... I fasted, prayed and preached the bible to anyone with an ear hole... Over time I realized I wasnt converting anyone and life kinda happened...

Honeslty, I believe in God Jesus and the bible... I just don't believe I have the right to use my government to force people to believe like I do. If I have to make laws against abortion and gay mariage then I failed as a christian and more importantly we failed as church body.. You mentioned my language.. If I stand before god and the only thing he brings up is my language on the beagle board, then it will be a happy day indeed.

I Fall short of grace everyday, however as a leader at work and home i have to make some decisions alot dont like.Just because your childhood was crap does not mean it has to flow into your adult life. I had a wonderful childhood raised in church however i decided to take a road filled with drugs jail and alchol. Looking back i honestly think the time spent in jail was for my best interest, a calander year gives a man quite the time too think. . I just find it amazing as a ordained minister you dont back the almighty. Ya know anyone that knows me well enuff knows i am very loyal and Very outspoken, yet i dont think all the blame is parents. Lets look at Playstations and Video games that indorse killing Zombies and anything else a gun can shoot. I am a pretty good dad but that dont mean my Sons wont shoot me in the face point blank. I think its too easy to point to the most obvious problem without getting to the core. Happy Xmas to all.

[fjg2]

If a drunk driver hits a school bus and kills 15 children, they dont try to ban alcohol, they blame the person and his actions. Thats the way it should be.
MAN UP and put the blame where it belogs.

excellent point

[warddog]

I have no children but am the oldest of 7 with 18 years between me and the youngest. I am definately no expert on kids but not having any gives me a perspective from a third party point of view. I know as a young child I NEVER had all the luxeries including knowing that my parents would NOT be able to afford even helping me with an education after high school. We also were NOT a church going family but our parents surely taught us right from wrong back then which was basically the 10 commandments. If one of us broke a rule we were not spared the stink tree switch. Now days that is and would be called child abuse and in my case my parents would have been guilty of it at least weekly. I also remember getting the paddle in school as well which is also a form of child abuse in todays society. I'll say that I had my back side tamped more times than I can remember and FACTS are I deserved everyone of them. Do I consider that child abuse? NO, it was discipline from which I learned that there were real consequences for decisions I made. After high school I then went into the U.S. Army where I also learned to appreciate even the little things that I took for granted as an American. The consequences for bad decisions was also reiterated and the Army made it perfectly clear that they would tell me exactly what I needed and if they thought I needed my Momma they would have issued me one. With all of this being said I am of the opinion that the problem is that society has evoled to that of enablers. We as elders have and are so caught up in our everyday lives of making a living to provide so much more than what we had as kids that we have evolved to enabling the future generation from learning the things that most of us lived and learned in the home. Church was never the teacher in our home but rather the goodness in my parents hearts that was taught to our family. YES, we were poor as Sh*t house mice BUT we were much, much happier than the kids I'm around today. They have it all and are still bored with life, why? because they have it all handed to them and that IMO leaves them with no wantin dreams or goals in there life. I'm not knocking church as IMO it's the same thing I'm alluding to as that is a dream or a goal for folks that may have lost theirs. That goal is to get to heaven and it gives us strength to carry on for a purpose BUT even at that and as my grandfather taught me after giving his life to the lord, one will not get there without legs as prayers and time in the pew is on the outside and little or nothing to do with what's truely on the inside!

[Mo. Beagler 5000]

I just find it amazing as a ordained minister you dont back the almighty. Ya know anyone that knows me well enuff knows i am very loyal and Very outspoken, yet i dont think all the blame is parents. Lets look at Playstations and Video games that indorse killing Zombies and anything else a gun can shoot. I am a pretty good dad but that dont mean my Sons wont shoot me in the face point blank. I think its too easy to point to the most obvious problem without getting to the core. Happy Xmas to all.

I do back God.. I just don't think He needs me to create laws in order to force people to believe in him. Prayer in schools is not illegal but making kids pray or leading in prayer should be illegal. I dont want my kids to pray to allah and I dont think we should make anyone left out.. Religiously ran countries are WAY WAY worse than ours... I donate to charities and I help people when given the chance. I volunteer in the summer at youth camps and I pray with people when they ask and I preach when I feel the need.

YOur second point about parents though:: Parents are the ones letting their kids play those games. No WAY IN HELL would I let my kid play first person shooter games in elementary or in junior high. Its their responsibility to make sure they dont...Just like I wouldn't allow them to smoke dope or be mean to the opposite sex...

Merry christmas to you too!! Too me this is all just talking.. no hard feelings at all. I realize I dont make many friends. But I tend to keep the ones I do have..

[Mapel Valley Kennels LLC.]

If a drunk driver hits a school bus and kills 15 children, they dont try to ban alcohol, they blame the person and his actions. Thats the way it should be.
MAN UP and put the blame where it belogs.

Carrollton, Kentucky bus collision google it, My hometown.

[bucks better beagles]

I was raised a Hard Shell Baptist and was never spared the rod or a willow switch. At about the time I began to realize there was no santa claus, easter bunny or any of the many other myths and stories we were told, I began to question and look for truth. I then became a non-believer. I have never been in jail, never used a switch on my kids and raised 4 of them. I don't believe there is anything wrong with the children of today that wasn't wrong 50 years ago or hundreds of years ago. Morality is not dictated by a god or the government. Our concept of right or wrong evolved as civilization progressed. We had to treat each other decently or we would end up killing each other. There has always been abhorrent behavior contrary to social norms. It is always a terrible shock to our psyche and hopefully, it will always be. If you live long enough, everything you love will pass away.

[warddog]

Mo. beagler 5000, I hear ya and agree. I believe today just as I did when I served this country that it was founded on "the people's right to choose"! Isn't that what freedom allows us and what seperates America from other countries? Isn''t that why folks sailed across the unknown seas, exploring to find a land where they could enjoy their freedom of religion as well as their pursuit of happiness without interference of everything? Maybe I'm wrong but I have always felt this country was the poster child for human's rights and thus the US Constituion with it's Amendments. I firmly believe that every PERSON has the right to choose and THEY also have the responsibility for the results of those choices THEY made which was one of the things my parents taught me. With every decision comes consequences, some good, some bad but they are mine and mine alone.