A general forum for the discussion of hunting with beagles, guns, clothing and other equipment and just talking dawgs! (Tall tales on hunting allowed, but remember, first liar doesn't stand a chance)
BCBeagles wrote:Just my opinion, but early mouth and extra mouth are two different things in my knowledge. I am not an expert by any means, but a hound that can trail jump a rabbit, whether it be 10 yards or 100 yards, is not extra mouth. in my thinking. IF and that is a big IF, they are moving the game in the proper direction to a better scent. Extra, too me, is barking in the check, barking in the same area multiple times without moving to new or better scent. I will say I have seen my own hounds bark in an area and not be able to produce the rabbit, but that is reasonably rare. No hounds are perfect that is for sure, but I will take a little too much nose as opposed to not enough.
I will whole heartedly agree with Ron that big nose and early mouth go hand in hand. Extra is there as well in some cases, I will not be dishonest and say that mine have barked and always produced a rabbit, sometimes they haven't produced. Nature of the beast.
I like a good nose and will put up with the negatives. I think the breeders that have consistantly produced a good hound to run and trial on snow have probably culled harder than any others. JMO.
I agree. Thankyou for posting this. I have been told I am wrong so many times that I don't usually speak up anymore.
First I would like to say I think field trialing has had an effect on breeding dogs with less nose. Stiff competition and Judges looking for mistakes has created a trend, better safe than sorry. Personally I like a hound with a great nose and correct mouth. Along with the nose must be a brain and to get a high quality hound you must have both. Everyone has their favorite blood lines and I think this is where it begins. Find a blood line that has the nose power you like and line breed quality hounds. Nose is probably the most valuable trait of a hound and the hardest to get correct. I have found one I like that has proven he can run when others can't many times over. I would love to produce one just like him and so far we are having good results but it is to early to tell the whole story.
You can quote me on this......
To have a Great dog it must have a Great nose....
We are all trying to learn here. Doing, mistakes, learning all a process in improving, no need to be defensive
Im trying to learn along with everyone else. When you cut and paraphrase my comments out of two different threads, combine them together and attempt to make me look like Im contradicting myself Im not sure anyone learns anything from that......
How long do you keep hounds before you determine they don't stack up? My experience has taught me to cut losses sooner rather than later and move on to next generation. In my small kennel through the years, my top dogs were all very good early and just kept getting better. My cold nosed hounds took longer to mature and were higher maintenence throughout the year. Im aware of the risk of culling a hound to soon, but a more common problem I see is kennels full of culls.
Of these hounds that are "late developers", what common traits do they have? Are they just average hounds that for some reason blossom at a late age? With this line of thinking you would have to keep several average hounds in the kennel. With my active family and career I would just have a bunch of out of shape hounds sitting in the kennel with all of them suffering the consequences.
You say history is against me, but I think if you asked the guys that have owned a superstar, most would tell you they were very good early. At least the guys Ive asked.
Mybeagles
Now your starting to act like a child, I didn't cut an paraphrase anything.
Just because you were among the comments don't think this is all about you,...an my history comment of genius was about the analogy of humans not hounds.
Gee wizz, I'll leave this topic up to ya'll to figure out and I'll just watch for the pearls to drop...
NorWester1 wrote:How many of you guys are breeding for nose power in your hounds?
Me & my buddy just recently made a cross based on nose power (3x NLPC FTCH Forest Pond's Slick x DT Barton's Notty Dotty)
Dotty has one of the biggest noses that Ive seen,can smell & track when other dogs cant,sometimes she'll bark a lil early but usually always produces,she'll also throw a couple extra barks here an there off the line & in the check,but it's not that bad at all,on those tough scentin days her good definitely out weighs the bad,she gets most of the jumps & checks on them tough days...
We wanted to add more nose to our kennel for those tough scentin days,so we decided to make this cross,the pups are only 3 months old so we dont know what the results are yet,but were both very excited to find out
Last edited by sparky on Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
If you have line bred your hounds to what you desire except for nose power and you found a line of line bread hounds with the nose power you desire (and their blood is compatible with your line), how many generations would it take for you to see the nose power increase in your hounds if you made the outcross. I hope you can understand my question and thanks for the help. Great topic.
Don't know about time frame, but I would closely evaluate the reproducing powers of the stud I chose to increase the nose. Just like Sparky, posting above, they went to A big nose stud that throws big nose. I think that would narrow that gap to increase your nose power. Find a stud throwing big nose and take your best linebred bitch there, JMO.
I'm not an expert in breeding dog, at least not yet. I consider myself an expert in breeding pigeon, chicken, and fish. From hundreds of breeding and evaluating the offspring, like father like son, like mother like daughter. The result of the offspring never out performs the parent. They could only be very close or a notch better, but never out perform their parent in whatever the purpose of the breeding. I applied my breeding experiences to breeding beagle and I think it is very similar. I like to breed best to best. My definition of best is the best stud/bitch out there that I could stud or buy. If you are breeding for best to best, the chances of getting something very close to the sire/dam are higher.
Now to the question that was asked "How many of you guys are breeding for nose power in your hounds? "
Nose power is my number one priority. A hot nose dog have a lot of problem making those 90" turn and stepping on the brake when over run.
"What sort of criteria &/or strategy are you using to build this trait or combination of traits into your hounds and how do you evaluate the finished product?"
Like I stated earlier, I like to breed best to best. The finished product will be evaluated and take it to the field trial. Just because a dog could run on very bad conditions means nothing if the dog has no chance at the field trial. I like a complete dog.
fjg2 wrote
"not sure what you are referring too? I have seen some darn impressive greenbay hounds run with showed awesome nose. Which ever male Joe K. ran last Feburary at the adirondack SPOH and took a first in 13" male class surely dominated his winners brace?"
That male is Green Bay Ely. My dad used to own his littermate Johna. I borrowed her for a breeding to FC Henry Hunter and she passed away after a very difficult c-section. Johna is one of the coldest nose I have ever seen, therefore, her brother should be very similar. If you are looking to add nose power to your kennel, check out Ely. Whenever I have a right bitch, Ely is on my list.
I dont think their is a paticuliar breed of beagle out their that can say it has nose power over all others, In most cases you get lucky and raise a few over time that has that power, but dont exspect it to often, when you get one enjoy the time you have it. GOD BLESS THE RABBIT HUNTERS
I agree. Thankyou for posting this. I have been told I am wrong so many times that I don't usually speak up anymore.
