What's more difficult???

Mapel Valley Kennels LLC. · Wed Oct 17, 2012 1:32 pm

Harry And John. This is what i am saying. If i have the proper pedigree which most believe to be Red.And i run his guts out which i have and still cant finish, why is that? I mean maybe my day has pass but when i was rocking. Very few and i do mean very few put in solid time on hounds and some i could get a break ever in a trial, now i aint the sharpest knife in the drawer however i have done my time and fill pretty confident in my knowledge of my hounds so if some body could explain to me why i couldnt get a break i think it would be worth a response.

johns03272008 · Post by **johns03272008** » Wed Oct 17, 2012 1:49 pm

Neil, fasttrackpa, and all that believe champions are born PLEASE

Explain this to me then!! 2 dogs say out of the same litter that where born champions ok

, lets say both dogs have 3 wins but not all the points and dogs have different owners, both owners train or run their hounds different ok, hounds have same running style same everything, 1 dog gets blowed up, you saying that the dog that blows up is no longer born a champion, but was BORN with everything, all the tools??? I would say that the owner whos dog did not blow up knows how to MAKE a field champion and the one whos dog blew up was just using the tools the dog had but didnt know how to use those tools correctly he must have believed dogs are born champions and not made!!! Due to the dog blowing up it wasnt the same ever again and couldnt finish and the dog that was ran correctly and understood the needs of the dog and the certain training by the owner finished for FC, Therefore the dog that did not blow up and was ran correctly and trained correctly finished AND THEREFORE WAS MADE NOT BORN!!!

Mapel Valley Kennels LLC. · Wed Oct 17, 2012 1:53 pm

Hey Bro how do correctly run a dog anyway? What if i told you i had a full littermate To Powered by Turbo that never could finish then? Its my fault hmm i get it now no wonder i aint been finishing them all, i am going about it wrong.Lol. I still love ya little bro.

Competent · Post by **Competent** » Wed Oct 17, 2012 1:57 pm

Andy iam pretty sur we are talking hounds not eggs and chickens. Big difference skip. Cmon men lets use some common sense.
Maple Valley I don't no y u cldnt get a break wasnt der but in my opinion if u can't finish ur dog and u believe he has da talent den u aren't doing someting rite in ur running program!! I beleive successful beaglers dat no how ta get da most out of dese hounds like branko the stevves Monkman I cld.go on but I believe day cld.make a poodle into a Fc. Dem guys just nos.what it takes ta bring da best out of a hound!! JMO

johns03272008 · Post by **johns03272008** » Wed Oct 17, 2012 2:04 pm

Mapel Valley Kennels LLC. wrote:Hey Bro how do correctly run a dog anyway? What if i told you i had a full littermate To Powered by Turbo that never could finish then? Its my fault hmm i get it now no wonder i aint been finishing them all, i am going about it wrong.Lol. I still love ya little bro.

Jimbo i still love ya to bro but im just saying each hound may need to he run different and each hound reacts differently to each kind of running i know you know that!! Hell i aint never finished a hound may never either but i do know that each hound is different and i dont believe for 1 second that champions are born!!!

1 thing i will agree on that some have the champion or better traits and some dont but that dont make them born champions!! They have to be made into champions by training them!! Therefore MADE NOT BORN

Casey Harner · Post by **Casey Harner** » Wed Oct 17, 2012 2:09 pm

I agree with that saying Badass out of the box. You cannot disagree that there are lines out that produce Fc time and time again or ones that produce straight up rabbit dogs. Do you agree that there are dogs out there that are high maintenance. Do you believe that these dogs are true rabbit dogs if they need a whole week to get their heads straight. I put in probably 80 hrs a week with our family catering business. I don't have time to put so much work into a high maintenance hound. Mr. Snow and Mr. Schellling do you agree or disagree that a dog that doesn't need two weeks of hard running to get his/her head on straight for a upcoming trialing event is more a rabbit dog than one that needs all the time to get their head on straight. Give me a dog that stays the same that doesn't need tons of work... badass out of the box...

Mapel Valley Kennels LLC. · Wed Oct 17, 2012 2:15 pm

Yea your right man they are all different, If you run enuff they will tell you how they need run, We aint got the pleasures of pens as our northern friends have, lucky them. And a deer runner in kentucky can get gone over these hills fast as heck.
I just figured i would make you call Hogg and ask him if i had a littermate to Turbo.

..... .
But i do think at times too many judge the wrong end of the lead. Jmho.
I also agree with Casey a high maintanence hound is like dating a coke wh@re. I have owned them and dated them, niether one is worth shooting when its all said and done too me.

Ohiohntr · Post by **Ohiohntr** » Wed Oct 17, 2012 2:32 pm

Casey Harner wrote:Breeding for a Field Champion, or taking a dog out to the field trials trying to make a FC?? This question also applies to other registries and/or formats!!

You can have the best and driest split oak in the forrest but without a spark your never going to get fire. Likewise, you could have a blowtorch and not get wet oak to burn.

When you combine a blowtorch and dry oak....look out cause your going to have fire.

The problem arises when guys don't know their trees and only carry a book of matches.

fasttrackpa · Post by **fasttrackpa** » Wed Oct 17, 2012 2:35 pm

I understand completely what you guys are saying (John and Harry) I agree that a good trainer/handler can finish a mediocre hound. But my point is, the hound has to have been born with the tools. If they aren't we can't bring them out and take advantage of them. I have had really good luck at the trials but I am no way lucky enough to finish a dog that was born without the tools. I have been able to look at pups out of the last 5 of my own litters and pick the pups that have the tools to become FC. I could see what I needed to by the time they ran their 3rd or 4th rabbit.

Competent · Post by **Competent** » Wed Oct 17, 2012 2:35 pm

Casey I disagree when u start a puppy is it ready ta win no does it need.ta be pounded yes. first off u shld start long before two weeks ta get a.dog ready for a trial. U.need ta no.what ur hound needs ta win some dogs need a Wednesday spin before da trial on da weekend some dogs once.rock hard can go week ta week dats if ya have trials week ta week if no trial on da weekend den spin.ur.dog den rest all week. Its all bout figuring out what a dog.needs ta finish and every dog needs different running. Some dogs are high maintance.some aren't. Pound da guts out of.ur.dogs as soon as day start get as much time on dem before.a yr old as u can I believe dats when a hound learns da most at dat age. Figure out what ur dog needs and feed him HARE tracks!!

Harry Snow.Jr.

fasttrackpa · Post by **fasttrackpa** » Wed Oct 17, 2012 2:40 pm

Competent wrote:Casey I disagree when u start a puppy is it ready ta win no does it need.ta be pounded yes. first off u shld start long before two weeks ta get a.dog ready for a trial. U.need ta no.what ur hound needs ta win some dogs need a Wednesday spin before da trial on da weekend some dogs once.rock hard can go week ta week dats if ya have trials week ta week if no trial on da weekend den spin.ur.dog den rest all week. Its all bout figuring out what a dog.needs ta finish and every dog needs different running. Some dogs are high maintance.some aren't. Pound da guts out of.ur.dogs as soon as day start get as much time on dem before.a yr old as u can I believe dats when a hound learns da most at dat age. Figure out what ur dog needs and feed him HARE tracks!!

Harry Snow.Jr.

100% agree

johns03272008 · Post by **johns03272008** » Wed Oct 17, 2012 2:49 pm

Casey Harner wrote:I agree with that saying Badass out of the box. You cannot disagree that there are lines out that produce Fc time and time again or ones that produce straight up rabbit dogs. Do you agree that there are dogs out there that are high maintenance. Do you believe that these dogs are true rabbit dogs if they need a whole week to get their heads straight. I put in probably 80 hrs a week with our family catering business. I don't have time to put so much work into a high maintenance hound. Mr. Snow and Mr. Schellling do you agree or disagree that a dog that doesn't need two weeks of hard running to get his/her head on straight for a upcoming trialing event is more a rabbit dog than one that needs all the time to get their head on straight. Give me a dog that stays the same that doesn't need tons of work... badass out of the box...

Geee didnt see that coming with the agreeing with Neil

fasttrackpa wrote:
Competent wrote:Casey I disagree when u start a puppy is it ready ta win no does it need.ta be pounded yes. first off u shld start long before two weeks ta get a.dog ready for a trial. U.need ta no.what ur hound needs ta win some dogs need a Wednesday spin before da trial on da weekend some dogs once.rock hard can go week ta week dats if ya have trials week ta week if no trial on da weekend den spin.ur.dog den rest all week. Its all bout figuring out what a dog.needs ta finish and every dog needs different running. Some dogs are high maintance.some aren't. Pound da guts out of.ur.dogs as soon as day start get as much time on dem before.a yr old as u can I believe dats when a hound learns da most at dat age. Figure out what ur dog needs and feed him HARE tracks!!

Harry Snow.Jr.

100% agree

That is not a field champion being born that is a field champion being made!!! well said Jr.

sparky · Post by **sparky** » Wed Oct 17, 2012 3:00 pm

Both Genetics & Field Time are Important...
However,someone could put a Million Hours on a dog & if that dog dosnt have the Talent,then it just dont got it.
On the other hand,Take a Talented dog & put some Time on it (dosnt have to be a Million Hours) & you'll have a Good chance of Finishing it.

fasttrackpa · Post by **fasttrackpa** » Wed Oct 17, 2012 3:01 pm

johns03272008 wrote:
Casey Harner wrote:I agree with that saying Badass out of the box. You cannot disagree that there are lines out that produce Fc time and time again or ones that produce straight up rabbit dogs. Do you agree that there are dogs out there that are high maintenance. Do you believe that these dogs are true rabbit dogs if they need a whole week to get their heads straight. I put in probably 80 hrs a week with our family catering business. I don't have time to put so much work into a high maintenance hound. Mr. Snow and Mr. Schellling do you agree or disagree that a dog that doesn't need two weeks of hard running to get his/her head on straight for a upcoming trialing event is more a rabbit dog than one that needs all the time to get their head on straight. Give me a dog that stays the same that doesn't need tons of work... badass out of the box...
Geee didnt see that coming with the agreeing with Neil

fasttrackpa wrote:
Competent wrote:Casey I disagree when u start a puppy is it ready ta win no does it need.ta be pounded yes. first off u shld start long before two weeks ta get a.dog ready for a trial. U.need ta no.what ur hound needs ta win some dogs need a Wednesday spin before da trial on da weekend some dogs once.rock hard can go week ta week dats if ya have trials week ta week if no trial on da weekend den spin.ur.dog den rest all week. Its all bout figuring out what a dog.needs ta finish and every dog needs different running. Some dogs are high maintance.some aren't. Pound da guts out of.ur.dogs as soon as day start get as much time on dem before.a yr old as u can I believe dats when a hound learns da most at dat age. Figure out what ur dog needs and feed him HARE tracks!!

Harry Snow.Jr.

100% agree

That is not a field champion being born that is a field champion being made!!! well said Jr.

I think we agree more than I thought. The difference is, I give more credit to the hound for achieving the title than the handler. I consider myself a ride to the woods, not a master trainer.

chapkosbeagles · Post by **chapkosbeagles** » Wed Oct 17, 2012 3:14 pm

All this yappity yappity it is as simple as this
U cant train a dog to smell it in the genetics
U cant train them to run faster in the genetics

On the other the dog will never learn what he or she comes natural if u dont take it to the woods .
Dogs also pic up learning behavior from other hounds ( adaptive traits) that is where if u run ur pup with a piece of crap he might pic up some of his traits example( dog barking)

There is almost as many factors that in the way the dog learns his or hers natural ability as genetics
U sure are not going to take a ugbf hound and make it a large pack hare champion that is a example of genetics

In my eyes it takes both but always remember this
U CANT TEACH AGOOD HOUND HOW TO RUN A RABBIT BUT A GOOD HOUND CAN TEACH U
Trust me I had one once and I will never forget them days

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