UKC hunts

LaMarr Rhoades · Post by **LaMarr Rhoades** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 10:33 am

Does anyone have an idea on how to state a rule that keeps a dog from slipping the line in a UKC hunt.It seems like there should be a way to state a rule to where a dog gets minused for keeping its mouth shut in a check area in order to get in front of the other dogs.Ive thought about it and the best I can come up with is to not score a dog that is not giving mouth on the line either 10 feet before or 10 feet after where the rabbit is being scored.I think PKC is promoting a tight mouth dog even more tan UKC is.Im not bashing UKC Im just trying to figure out how to make it better.I see alot of dogs get first line just because they slip out from the pack in a check area.And if UKC wants to promote a gun hunting dog ,The dogs have to bark.

kjohns · Post by **kjohns** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 12:10 pm

I kinda think a dog should move out on a line a little bit to make sure it's got it before it gives mouth. It beats a dog that is just mouthing everytime it thinks it found it again and it's wrong. That disrupts the whole pack. 10' is nothing on a rabbit line.

TC · Post by TC » Sun Oct 31, 2004 1:55 pm

What about the Dogs That are Overrunnin the Line then when a better line control Dog Brings em back they shoot to the front and get speed and drive points! But if the other dog had not brought them back they still would have been 20 yards away lookin for the line??? I have seen what you are talking about happen more than once And these are the dogs that are winning the points They run to the front then in the check area another dog picks it up and these hounds go runnin to the front then open up so they get speed and drive points when it was the Better control Dog med Speed Callin em back to it. i am Not sure how you could word it but it has been talked about on the UKC board a few times.

lonewolf · Post by **lonewolf** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 2:27 pm

lamarr i only run gun dogs, but my buddies are always trying to compete with each other, i have a 4 year old northway male that in a check he will go out about 15 yards with the track ahead of the dogs then just tear it up and my buddies just hate it because he gets the run on them so to speak , i think its awesome but im no trialer,,,,,

TC · Post by TC » Sun Oct 31, 2004 3:03 pm

Well that aint so bad lonewolf at least he is on the line!! What I was refering to is those that will come runnin back to the front after another dog opens and brings them back. After they have over run or are just lookin for the line.
i dont know what you can do about those types of dogs that wont open until they are way out on the line after a check, this does not seem to jive with working with the pack..

Post by **Bev** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 11:12 pm

LaMarr, I'm no expert on UKC rules but I think the first dog who is both barking and moving the line out is the one rewarded the recovery points. In my opinion, all dogs should keep their mouths shut in the check area until they have the line and can move it again. Barking and bumping the line a bit as the check is being worked should not be scored as a recovery. The dog has to both give mouth and move it out.

Somebody feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Incahoots · Post by **Incahoots** » Mon Nov 01, 2004 12:39 am

Losses and Recoveries: At point where dogs lose trail and become quiet, Judge to start clock on dogs. After one minute has elapsed without any dog opening, all struck dogs to be considered at a loss (check) and minused 20 points. In case of split tracks, times to be kept separately for checks on each track. First dog to open honestly, resulting in reasonable forward progress to be awarded 20 points for recovering the loss. Additional dogs opening after first dog, to receive no “recovery” points. If no dog opens within three minutes, track to be considered finished and that particular track must be minused. In case of running rabbit in hole or place of refuge, see rule 3 (e) or rule 5 (a).

All dogs get negative 20 at a check but only 1 can recover that 20 points. Bev is correct.

Speed and Drive: Dogs to pursue rabbit as fast as scenting conditions allow, but must exhibit good line control. Dog(s) observed to be “running rough,” “cutting,” or “slashing” on track will be scratched on second offense. Rough Running is defined as attempting to run the front of the pack faster than scenting conditions allow or without regard for the actual line. Routinely overshooting turns leading pack mates astray. Cutting is defined as attempting to run the front by leaving the trail to head off pack mates or avoiding heavy cover and other obstacles. Slashing is defined as running in a hit or miss fashion as a result of gambling and without regard for the actual line.

If you see a dog is doing that you need to make it apparent to the judge and others there. If judge does nothing then tell Master of Hounds. No system is perfect but most times it's do to human error more then the actual rules. It's only as honest as the people are about it.

TC · Post by TC » Mon Nov 01, 2004 1:15 am

If you see a dog is doing that you need to make it apparent to the judge and others there. If judge does nothing then tell Master of Hounds. No system is perfect but most times it's do to human error more then the actual rules. It's only as honest as the people are about it.

Well We have Been Studing the rule books and Will try Bringing it up again this year. Old habits are hard to break and these guys have been winnin for years!!!!

Speed and Drive: Dogs to pursue wabbit as fast as scenting conditions allow, but must exhibit good line control. Dog(s) observed to be “running rough,” “cutting,” or “slashing” on track will be scratched on second offense. Rough Running is defined as attempting to run the front of the pack faster than scenting conditions allow or without regard for the actual line. Routinely overshooting turns leading pack mates astray. Cutting is defined as attempting to run the front by leaving the trail to head off pack mates or avoiding heavy cover and other obstacles. Slashing is defined as running in a hit or miss fashion as a result of gambling and without regard for the actual line.

Exactly What I was talking About But when you bring up this rule All ya get is a bunch of argument about interpretation Of Rough Running, Slashing, Or Cutting.
Hopefully We have a little better understanding of the rules this year.

Thanks for Posting that Incahoots

LaMarr Rhoades · Post by **LaMarr Rhoades** » Mon Nov 01, 2004 11:44 am

Bev,I agree with you one hundred percent on the checks.Im talkin about the dog that cuts off the dog that got the check and 35 yards away starts pounding the rabbit and scores first line.I guess it wouldnt be so much slippin the line as much as just cutting.On the check thing,I think the judges should be a little more picky on that,the dog should have to be driven the rabbit to get a check.

Incahoots · Post by **Incahoots** » Mon Nov 01, 2004 4:14 pm

A dog that cuts in front will lose points. The first dog to open and is called is the only dog that can regain the minused points at a check. I know what you are saying but the thing is they should not be calling a line until progression is made by the dogs and a circle is made. They in no way should call a line 20 yards from a check.

I think the rules are pretty good but like I said the human element is the flaw. You really need to know the rules inside and out. Most places the rules probally wont be an issue and others will point out any errors etc and everyone is content. The problem is with guys that will take advantage of others that don't know the rules. No matter what sport you'll always have those types. Learning the rules not only helps out when in a cast and others don't honestly know how to handle a situation but against those type of people. You can help others and yourself by learning all you can about the rules.

You can always take appeals higher then Master of Hounds. I will say if a club is being unfair I'd report it. No one can take action if people just leave worked up and never report it.

woodbrier kennels · Post by **woodbrier kennels** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 10:05 am

pkc is not promoting a tighter mouth dog your hound has to run a percentage of the track to be able to score on the line and that is determined by a vote within the cast.

xdawg · Post by **xdawg** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 1:09 pm

Sounds like someone is getting tired of eating minuses or he is tired of having the only dog in the pack barking for no apparent reason...

Just my thoughts,
Jack

LaMarr · Post by **LaMarr** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 1:26 pm

Xdawg,Bring your dogs up.Id be happy to put a spanking on ya.

Lamarr Rhoades · Post by **Lamarr Rhoades** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 1:32 pm

Ive ran in one PKC hunt and won it.Ive ran in three UKC hunts and have won one and placed third in one and in the big money hunt they had in UKC last year our dog placed third.Im not tired of anything I would just like to start going to more of them but there is a few things I thought neede changed but after everyone showing me what the rules are I think it was more of a human errer.

Post by **Bev** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 2:40 pm

To be scored speed and drive points the dog must run the majority of the line. This was well-demonstrated at the recent UKC World Hunt. In the final cast, one dog came into a line late. I'm not sure if the dog was first across the marked line or not, but the owner refused any speed and drive points because he knew his hound hadn't run the majority of it.

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UKC hunts

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