Do Good Dogs Go To Heaven

[gwyoung]

Maple Valley, I forgot to answer your question, Nothing more has to be fulfilled before the coming of Christ.
Buck, Not sure if the Pope said that or not, but I do not consider him an Authority on all things Biblical, but to those who do I mean no disrespect.

[Dave Swiger]

Mr Young , What about the two witness in the streets of Jerusalem? What about the king of the North's battle with the King of the south?

Dave

[gwyoung]

Dave, If your question is; who are the two witnesses, Some Scholars believe it is Elijah and Moses. Though no Scholar, I believe them to be Enoch and Elijah, These are the only two men who ever left this world without " dying" God took them, I believe to die at another appointed time , this will be during the Tribulation. as far as the battle of the Kings you speak of the only thing that comes to my mind is the battle of Daniel. This is a Prophecy that has already come to pass concerning the area from Persia ( modern day Iran) to Egypt.

[Mo. Beagler 5000]

GW-- Oh ya, I could tell you what Catholics, Pentecostals, baptists and methods etc believe about the book... I'm just saying we had classes on Pauline epistles, gospels, OT theology NT theology and everything.... On top of learning greek hebrew and latin but the course on revelation was taught by an adjubct professor who only told us what people believe about the book and we read it a few times but we didnt get deep into it... Again, its because revaltion is extensively writtien about by mainstream authors but not many of them look at it through a scholars eye toward interpretation...

Its simply not a book worth arguing about becasue the symbolism is just crazy and no one really knows except that its true... Is it a good book on par with the rest of scripture? of course it is.

[bucks better beagles]

GW: You said, "So if some of it is Corruptible and some of it is not, we would have no way of knowing what God's word really was would we. This would make all of it suspect and God would have failed." You kind of came to the right conclusion only through the back door. We are all entitled to our own interpretations but not to our own set of facts.

It is generally believed that the book of revelation was written by a deranged man in a cave or else someone hopped up on the acid of the day. Not even absolutely known who to give credit to for it. Not too many people take it literal anymore but the "end of world" theorists sure do.

Time to move this over to the religion forum.

[littlewoody]

I believe animals are closer to god then people.

[gwyoung]

Mo Beagler, You are right about Revelation it requires some study so most concern themselves elsewhere, but it is the most revealing book in the Bible ( hence the name) I don't argue the Bible with anyone if one wants to argue about something else I am in for it. Buck, I didn't come in the back door to get the correct answer. You can interpret the Bible any way you want but to help you come to the right conclusion you back up scripture with scripture if you can't find other scriptures to back up your point or if you find others that disagree with your interpretation you might want to reconsider your point of view. That's what I do. It will eventually bring you to the correct answer. St. John wrote the book of Revelation there has never been any doubt about that and if you read it it says so repeatedly. of course it was Gods word he was writing and it is the literal word of God just like the rest of the Bible. Satan hates the book of Revelation. I am not going to argue the Bible with anyone I have given some information based on many years of reading the Bible and my time as a Sunday school teacher, this information was meant in kindness, if you hold an opinion to the contrary fine. If you do not believe the Bible is the word of God as some obviously do fine, If you do not believe in God as I suspect some don't fine. If I feel that some are honestly seeking an answer I will respond otherwise Others can have the last word. Mo Beagler, nearly forgot, When Jesus says he will blot one's name out of the book of Life, this is a dividing line amongst Denominations, as some believe that this means you can lose your Salvation!

[Mo. Beagler 5000]

GW--- I believe you can loose your salvation but not for that reason... I know its controversy and probably not a topic for a hunting board but the main reason is that the bible warns against falling away... Why would paul say not to fall from grace if it wasn't possible?

[gwyoung]

Mo Beagler, We can discuss it until someone complains if you like. If you are honestly looking for answers and not wanting to start an argument. Paul was issuing a warning against the law. He was saying that one is not saved by keeping the law but was saved by Grace ( through Faith) There were those who believed you were saved by keeping the law the same as you have those today who believe you are saved by works. He was saying if you believe you can be saved by the Law then you cannot have absolute Faith in the Grace of God for salvation . One cannot believe Salvation is by keeping the Law but still believe the Grace of God through Faith is what saves you. These are two opposing beliefs. You cannot have Faith in God to save you and at the same time believe it may not be Faith in God that saves you and have the Law or Works as a back-up plan. If you have the Law then you are fallen away from Grace, you have removed yourself from it and therefore Christ is of no effect to you! ( You have not fallen away from Salvation ,you have fallen away from the method of Salvation- Grace through Faith) You say you believe one can lose their salvation but not because of Jesus saying he would blot one's name out of the book of life ,I find that interesting as that is generally the number one scripture people point to when making that argument.

[Salzer mtn]

Christ never said he gave temperal life but etenal life. St John 17:3 And this is eternal life, that they may know thee the only true God and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. St. John 10: 28-30 And i give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my hand. I and the Father are one. We are bone of his bone and flesh of his flesh. A lot of people think that to believe you are eternally secure in Christ after your saved gives you a license to sin but actually if a person understands the grace of God in the right way it makes him more humble and thankful for Gods eternal life and love. St. John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son hath not life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. Rom 8:38-39 For i am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, no powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor and other creature, shall be able to seperate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord. When Paul named every thing he could think of that couldn't seperate us, he just said, nor any other creature and that includes the devil.

[Mo. Beagler 5000]

SLzr-- notice how all of those things you listed that paul said were EXTERNAL.. nothing external can separate god from us but we can go it ourselves

James 1:14-15
James is speaking to believers, not non-Christians who are already dead in sin because they do not have Jesus, he is warning those who are alive in Christ that it is possible to be overcome by sin out of their own willing choices and ultimately die again!


…each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death

2 Peter 2:20-22
If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them. Of them the proverbs are true: “A dog returns to its vomit,” and, “A sow that is washed goes back to her wallowing in the mud”

Hebrews 6:4-6
It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace

[Mo. Beagler 5000]

I dont think its possible to have your salvation taken from you by anyone or anything but clearly scripture talks about loosing it.. Hebrews is a perfect example. The whole christ will not be crucified twice. I also believe once you loose it there is no getting it back.... BUTTT I think if you want to be saved you either never lost it or never had it..

I dont believe I can be saved and insaved hundreds of times.. thats kinda silly and not scriptural. I know every scripture your gonna throw back at me but its a fun topic

[Salzer mtn]

SLzr-- notice how all of those things you listed that paul said were EXTERNAL.. nothing external can separate god from us but we can do it ourselves

" But we can do it ourselves" would fall under, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand St. John 10:28. The next statement would probably be, If i believed that, i would do whatever i wanted too and still go to heaven. Answer: I do, do what i want too. When God saved me he changed my want too. Therfore If any man be in Christ, he is a new creature (creation) old things have passed away; behold all things are become new 11 Cor 5:17. This is one of the evidences we have been saved, is that we have been changed. St. John 10: 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. Not only does God do heart surgery on a christian by taking away the old stoney heart and putting in a heart of flesh (tender heart) but he also does a surgery on our ears and feet. We hear His voice, we won't listen to the voice of a stranger and we walk as it pleases Him.

[gwyoung]

Mo Beagler, The theme of James is Religion. James is " preaching" a sermon though he calls all Brethern he was writing to the twelve tribes of Israel look at the first sentence of James. Now, he had no way of knowing that all of these people from all twelve tribes of Israel were saved and as how this meant tens of thousands of people it is not likely that even 10 percent were saved . He meant Brethern in the sense that he was of one of these tribes. Look at it again and see who he was writing to. Now remember he is preaching against sin , you pulled verse 14 and 15 out if you will look at the very first sentence of verse 14 it once again states who he is really preaching to, It starts " But evey man is tempted" not just saved men he is simply preaching to all, about sin and later in verse 15 he tells of the consequences of Sin.
As far as the verses you mention in Peter, There are two schools of thought on that one I will give you both. Some hold that since the people mentioned only have known the way ( they did not necessary travel the full distance to Salvation , just knowing the way doesn't mean you actually been there) Also notice they are still dogs returning to their vomit, they are still hogs returning to the Mire, They were never sheep turning back into Hogs and Dogs! . I think these chapters in Peter tell of God dealing with his children . God does not whip the Devils children that is why we know some who act like hell and seem to have everything. But when you leave this " Vomit" and become a child of the King it is a different story. God is now your father and when you return to your former( ways) God will now whip you , you return to that vomit now and it is going to be a lot worse for you now than when you were in it without God to whip you. I do not think an earnest study of these verses will lead many to believe they are about losing your Salvation. I will deal with the scripture in Hebrews you mentioned after Breakfast.

[Alabama John]

Do good dogs go to Heaven? That is the question.

This is one of those things like so many others that we just do not know for sure. If all was written down the world would not hold the writings so a lot is not told us.

Each of us can believe this anyway we want. I say if your belief brings you closer to God, then it is good.

We'll all find out by and by.