Shout Out to Trialers

[hounddog]

Likemfast, you maybe an exception to the rule be how many people actually travel just to see a bunch, and I mean a bunch of different hounds run. I'd say very few. No, you don't have to be a trialer to see different hounds run but I'm talking about several hundred hounds a year. I travel to the World hunt, Little World, Several other big five hunts where there are over 500 hounds at each. Who travels to see well over a thousand hounds run a year. All I'm saying is by trialing, I have the opportunity to see way more then most. I have buddies that gun hunt only and to them, they have the best but when they run with someone else they make excuses. Kennel blindness!!!!!!!!
No, you don't have to be a trialer to know what a complete hounds is but chances are it's someone else hound.

hounddog
Jim Umbarger

[upstatenybeagler]

Dang it, I knew this thread would suck me in but here goes. I often wondered how a lot of guys say, either selling a hound or describing one, it is the best hound I've ever seen. I'm talking about guys that don't trial and never do anything but just hunt. That comment leads me to this guestion. How Many hounds have you ever seen run. 10 maybe 20 different hounds run? Is that enough hounds to be a good judge of what a good hound is. Yeah, they might bring the rabbit to the gun but I have a lab that will do that.
I, myself, have traveled the country, trialing hounds, judging hounds, hunting hounds and yes, I have seen some very nice hounds go. I owe all of this to trialing. It's so easy to become kennel blind if you've never seen very many hounds go.
I've owns hounds out of just about every Mid West bloodline there is out there, along with patch hounds. I've had good and bad in all of them. That's just how it is. I now breed for one certain format, and the hounds that have done well in that format. So far so good.
I must say by trialing, I know what it takes for a hound to be a complete hound.
As always JMO

hounddog
Jim Umbarger

Completely agree with you Jim. Just this years trials alone, I've seen a few hundred hounds. Some good, some bad, some just not my style, and some just the way i like them. Theres no rabbit hunt anywhere around thatll bring me to that many quality hounds at once.

[bucks better beagles]

It is so good to hear from guys like Steve, John, Dave and Upstate about this subject. You know from where you speak. I always say that until you have heard a bullet whizz by your head, you don't know what it means to be shot at. Trialing requires dedication, perseverance and a lot of experience. I stick by my opinion that what we do lives because of the trials. Without them, all we have is a bunch of back yard beagles and people telling each other how wonderful they are. With them, you can see the data.

One other thought, please quit saying that trial dogs don't have hunt. This is nonsense. Watch ol' Trails go or most of his pups that I have seen. You will get hunt. You can generalize about anything but trialers are no different than the rest of us. They want hunt and breed for it. They expect hunt and breed for it.

Would we have the magazines, the stud dogs or even this forum without trialers? No, I think not.

Every guy I know that trials regularly or now and then, also fun hunts and does that more than trialing. So, trialers, this is my "Shout Out". Keep it up!

Hounddog, I liked your post. Can I use your ideas?

[upstatenybeagler]

You see this all the time with guys who dont trial bad mouthing it and talking about the "politics" of it. The fact remains that it is the standard for our rabbit dogs. A few months back a guy that only rabbit hunts with my old man told me his rabbit beagle without papers could put my trial dog down any time. I told him to bring the dog over, we'll put them in the woods together, first one that quits hunting we put a bullet in.

Still waiting for him to show up.

[bucks better beagles]

upstatenybeagler: That's what I am talking about. Hint: Hire someone to fulfill the contract and make it clear that there is no backing out. This will stop all the b.s. in a hurry. Keep it coming. This post made my day.

[Mapel Valley Kennels LLC.]

Too Many know Too Much About Too Little. I ate a carton full of whoppers once as a kid to this day i hate too hear them crunch in my daughter mouth. Kinda like trialing I go i lose its Rigged and we shoot or dogs full of drugs.......

[augerhead]

Dang it, I knew this thread would suck me in but here goes. I often wondered how a lot of guys say, either selling a hound or describing one, it is the best hound I've ever seen. I'm talking about guys that don't trial and never do anything but just hunt. That comment leads me to this guestion. How Many hounds have you ever seen run. 10 maybe 20 different hounds run? Is that enough hounds to be a good judge of what a good hound is. Yeah, they might bring the rabbit to the gun but I have a lab that will do that.
I, myself, have traveled the country, trialing hounds, judging hounds, hunting hounds and yes, I have seen some very nice hounds go. I owe all of this to trialing. It's so easy to become kennel blind if you've never seen very many hounds go.
I've owns hounds out of just about every Mid West bloodline there is out there, along with patch hounds. I've had good and bad in all of them. That's just how it is. I now breed for one certain format, and the hounds that have done well in that format. So far so good.
I must say by trialing, I know what it takes for a hound to be a complete hound.
As always JMO

hounddog
Jim Umbarger

Jim, I don't trail but agree with you 100%, had a similar post on sample size. Sight will cure the blind, or it should!

[bodetis]

you uys are right, us hunters dont get to see the num of hounds you guys have, and i dont believe trials are a bad thing, iv been to the world hunt once, it was exciting to be around that many hounds ,but in the trial dogs iv seen most are speed demons that care less about running the rabbit, just s o as long as he or she is the front dog, iv seen them push, bang and swing to be the front dog.we ran one day and therewere other dogs in the area that i knew were trialers and i swear our so called backyard beagles were jumping all the rabbits while the other 3 trial dogs would steal our rabbits. and that happened several times.ihave one n ow that wants to be front and i cant stand it.he still young but he w ill go if he dont change his ways. mine have to work as a unit,and not compete with each other. you guys have to admit there are hounds that kinda give the sport a black eye because of that. but iv also seen couple that i would love to have. in my opinion some only worry about the brass and bragging rights instead of the true sport for beagles and thats rabbit hunting and doing it as a pack .trials seem to cause some dogs to be all about themselves, instead of well rounded like our back yard beagles. i woul rather have 3 or 4 working together instead of one that feels it has to do it all itsself!

[hounddog]

you uys are right, us hunters dont get to see the num of hounds you guys have, and i dont believe trials are a bad thing, iv been to the world hunt once, it was exciting to be around that many hounds ,but in the trial dogs iv seen most are speed demons that care less about running the rabbit, just s o as long as he or she is the front dog, iv seen them push, bang and swing to be the front dog.we ran one day and therewere other dogs in the area that i knew were trialers and i swear our so called backyard beagles were jumping all the rabbits while the other 3 trial dogs would steal our rabbits. and that happened several times.ihave one n ow that wants to be front and i cant stand it.he still young but he w ill go if he dont change his ways. mine have to work as a unit,and not compete with each other. you guys have to admit there are hounds that kinda give the sport a black eye because of that. but iv also seen couple that i would love to have. in my opinion some only worry about the brass and bragging rights instead of the true sport for beagles and thats rabbit hunting and doing it as a pack .trials seem to cause some dogs to be all about themselves, instead of well rounded like our back yard beagles. i woul rather have 3 or 4 working together instead of one that feels it has to do it all itsself!

Very good post! I do see your point but as your last sentence says, you would rather have 3 or 4 working together instead of one that feels he has to do it by itself. There's the difference betwwen most trialers and gun hunters. For the most part, trials are not set up to judge a pack but the hound that is doing the work. That eliminates the me too ers that are happy to run behind other hounds hoping to get just a small part of the scent. I can't and won't feed a hound that is just a part of a pack.
Here's something to think about.........Who's favorite ball player or singer or whatever is not the star player or the lead singer. I know of no one that thinks the members of Carrie Underwoods band are the greatest. Who are they? Anybody know their names?
Trials are set up to reconize to best hound of the day, not the pack of the day.
I respect the gun hunter but I personally think that the trialer is always searching hard for that world beater and is never satisfied with what he or she has.


hounddog
Jim Umbarger

[bodetis]

excellent post jim, i think both sides have good points, when it comes to the issue gun hunter vs trialer slash gun hunter, but 4 me i would take the middle pack runner thats well rounded and seems to clean upthe messes to keep the race going, just like the band member thats always there to cover the lead singer of a band when he or she misses a line or note in a song, but that member no body ever talks about, never misses a beat making the singer continue to look good.somethen else to think about .

[bucks better beagles]

Bodetis: Who needs the middle pack runner to clean up a mess? That front end dog will clean up his own check before the me'tooer's get there. I have had people try to tell me before that the 3rd or 4th place dog is keeping a race going. Hogwash. They make it sound good but back-packers are a dime a dozen. Pull them out, replace them with a different one and nothing will change.

[bodetis]

so you have never seen one blow past a check and then a 2nd3rd or maybe 4th hound comes n to clean it up only to have hogwash to take lead again with head held high up off the ground running 55 mile an hour!well i have,and i long 4 pack dogs that work together not race horses that care nothen about the pack, my dime a dozens fill my freezer every year, andthats what its about 4 me! jim has opened my mind a little to to the trials for a person wanting that super hound, understand that enoughis never enough, but 4 me my hounds are my trophies!

[jim matuszewski]

pretty sure that trialing was the center peice of beagling from the mid 50's to the mid 70's when they almost killed the breed as ahunting dog.were do you think the blood comes from in the dogs that are currently being trialed,pretty sure that it was from hunting stock.i think totally the opposit, the hunting beagle is the center peice of beagling.i have nothing against trialing tryed it a few times it was fun but to much traveling to run just run one dog when there are always 5-6 more at home that need the running.i think the trialers underestamate how many pleasure hunters like myself that do 3-4 hunting trips a year just to run with other dogs and blood lines.I really think that you can learn more about your dogs and another guys dogs by such trips,not nere the compitition(with the owners not the dogs)i'm not here to bash trialing it's just that trialers are not the center peice of beagling

[littlewoody]

It's the breeder to me. Anyone can breed two hounds. But having the talent to line breed is hard work. I would like to know how many fc are line breed?

[tom summers]

I started running & hunting rabbit dogs 37yrs ago and have always hunted and just trained hounds far more than I have trialed even though I judged through out the Midwest crcuit for years prior to an injury. and I will state this without a doubt. My kennel and grade of hounds have improved and continue to get better as a result of trialing and the stud dogs that come from it. If all of us just continued to breed just what we saw in our small world and not be exsposed to many fine hounds out there male and female the breed would not have improved at nearly as fast of a rate as it has, also I will state that if not for trialing we would not be having these conversations on this and other websites. "Trialing bring exsposure to the Sport and the Breed and a hunting dog and not just a show hound".
JMO Tom Summers