The evolution of a houndsman

[augerhead]

I think alot of the different veiws on the board could have something to do with time, what do you think? When I first started running dogs my expectations were few, I was real happy if my dog stayed in, barked a little, or way to much, didn't really know what a hunting dog was.I didn't care about mouth, size could be all over 13 to 18,ect. Then you start to expect a little more maybe get a rabbit once in a while, a check or two would be nice and get on the front some times. But everything changes when you start to want to compete with some of the old boys with lots of years under there belt. My next step was to win at all costs, cut,swing, foolish, foul mouthed ect. didn't matter just be on the front end. Now maybe my finale step, I want it all, hunt, drive, speed, mouth ect and as few faults as possible. To me that dog I had loved years ago would be nothing more than trade bait now. The IT factor in a dog is my ultimate goal, They must have all the qualities of a rabbit dog plus that IT FACTOR,the dog that makes you listen,makes you holler,makes others in the pack respect him,The kind that will stand out it a big pack. I don't know if this is a normal change that most people go thru or if I am doomed to always be looking, never be totally satisfied houndsman. Give an example of your evolution if you have. May be a reason if you have not.


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[Dave Swiger]

I started out as a rabbit hunter. The dog had to jump and circle back to the gun..period. As long as they hunted and didnt run trash I was happy. Reg. or grade. Then started to trial, for a while. Found out real quick that the trails idea of a dog and mine are way different. They want hot nosed, fast git the lead at all cost dogs. Now i'm happy to be just a rabbit hunter again with a line of dogs that have a medium nose and lots of hunt. Must jump and circle the rabbit by its's self.A few early barks or a wide check...not to worry about. I guess ive come full circle.

Dave

[bucks better beagles]

Augerhead: Wise man once said, "a life unexamined isn't worth living". It would appear you are examining yours as we speak and I think you are coming to the right conclusions. The answer to your question is "yes". Quite frankly you are doomed to never being satisfied. You can be happy for while with what you have if you can't get anything else, but satisfied, No and Never. What's more, I don't think you should be. Not being satisfied is what pushes us to search for the absolute best and since the absolute best exists only in your mind, you will never attain it. Perhaps this says it best:


The Perfect Hound

The old field trialer was looking for the perfect hound. He spent all his time looking until nothing else mattered. He stopped going to church, his wife left him, he lost his job and all his friends deserted him. Still, he spent the rest of his life looking for the perfect hound.

Then his life ended. When he woke up again, he was standing by some really nice gates and a well dressed man came and told him to come on in. The trialer asked the man if there were any perfect hounds in heaven. The man told him to just stand there and listen.

He stood there all night listening to the best rabbit race he had ever heard. No hound was barking wrong, none quit and there were no losses, just wide open running.

Late the next morning, the well dressed man came back. The trialer, who was by now hungry, tired and sleepy, asked, “don’t the rabbits ever go to hole up here in heaven”?.

The man replied, “Just stand here and listen to them perfect hounds run the perfect race. No one said this was heaven”.

[bucks better beagles]

The old "it" factor. Anybody who has spent any time doing what we do will know what this is. It only takes me a few minutes to see the "it factor" in a young dog. It is like the ol' boy said, "I may not know what art is but I know "it" when I see it".

[bluemouse]

Good rabbit dogs are not a dime a dozen, but we sometimes lose focus when that special hound comes along the one that has that extra drive the brians to figure out things other hounds miss, that bonds with its owner and learns how to please with ease and as houndmen we wonder why all are not like this hound and forget that this one is special.

[bfoster]

The Perfect Hound

The old field trialer was looking for the perfect hound. He spent all his time looking until nothing else mattered. He stopped going to church, his wife left him, he lost his job and all his friends deserted him. Still, he spent the rest of his life looking for the perfect hound.

Then his life ended. When he woke up again, he was standing by some really nice gates and a well dressed man came and told him to come on in. The trialer asked the man if there were any perfect hounds in heaven. The man told him to just stand there and listen.

He stood there all night listening to the best rabbit race he had ever heard. No hound was barking wrong, none quit and there were no losses, just wide open running.

Late the next morning, the well dressed man came back. The trialer, who was by now hungry, tired and sleepy, asked, “don’t the rabbits ever go to hole up here in heaven”?.

The man replied, “Just stand here and listen to them perfect hounds run the perfect race. No one said this was heaven”.

That right there is good stuff!! I like that. Thanks for sharing!!

[dog]

been doing this a long time , never have done the trial thing , never will , competition brings out the worst in people , always has always will . i evolved also , the only difference is i didnt get caught up in it , i quickly realised there are more important things in this world than how perfect a dog can circle a rabbit , i make some kind of mistake most every day , some days i am perfect though , not many though . for me too expect any more from these little guys would not be fair to them . my dogs are far from perfect , they give me 100% everytime out , they mind well and most of the time the end result is just what we were looking for , doesnt matter to me how good we looked doing it . never been one to worry about what others thought about me or what i had and not going to stat now , dont have to keep up with the Jone's. there have been very few times that i came home from running my guys that i was not happy and the few times i have i had to ask myself what my problem was and every time i have done that i have come to realize that it had nothing to do with the dogs and everything to do with something i let follow us into the field . i enjoy this stuff way to much to let myself get caught up in someone elses expectation of what i should enjoy

[gwyoung]

Been at this for about forty years now,I suppose only "serious" about it for the past thirty or so. I have never changed my mind on what I was looking for. I guess this is due to having houndsmen around me who knew what a good hound was supposed to do and not do and passing this on to me. I have never changed my mind on speed, mouth, checkwork, racing, swinging, Etc; I have always kept the same kind of dogs ,and always culled the same type of dogs. I have watched quite a few different type of dogs, mid-West, Northern Harehounds, Walkie talkies, UBGf style, etc; Some of the steppier UBGF style hounds are starting to get to the area of what I like, they have been getting a little quicker all along . but I have never changed my mind on what I believe to be a good hound.

augerhead, you said something in your post that really stuck out to me, that was the win at all costs comment followed by getting to the front. I think you are right on with this comment, far too many people judge a dog by whether he is on the front, regardless of his swinging- slashing ways. this dog should be eliminated from competition along with the judges who place him.

[augerhead]

Dog and Gw, Nothing at all wrong with how you guys feel about your dogs or the expectations of your dogs. You enjoy your hounds is the main thing. I simply posted this to see if anybody thought like I did, my quest and expectation is what fuels my desire to hunt.When I am not looking for a dog Iam working on a pup trying to make it a super dog.Once a pup I feel tops out and is not keeping me excited its on to the next project. It is hard to debate qualities in a dog when what we expect out of a dog is so different.Dog made the statement that his dogs very seldom ever make him unhappy, your my friend are blessed. I get aggravated alot with mine!



Lets hear more I'm sure there are more people out there like my self, that have changed there expectations over the years.What used to please me, now is just expected.



















gw

[See low]

i dont even remember the first time i was in the woods with beagles,,, ive heard my Dad and uncles talk about carrying me on there sholders.. and now im 300 plus and over 6 ft so id say its been a while back... the ole boys that i grew up under have always had all sorts of dogs.. looser dogs and tighter.. and to tell ya the truth i didnt really know the differance...if i bought a dog i just wanted it to bark hard and be up there where the action was at.....i would say that the moment of truth that made me want the type of dog i want and hunt today is.... a field trial bout 10 years ago.... we where in between cast... my uncle had my male on a leash... a big triple snap leash,, a guy went over the hill to take a pee.. and bounced a rabbit up. it ran right thru the croud. a gyp that was in the final cast got out of the box.. she got on the track and started pour out the mouth... my big male started goin crazy...my uncle WALKED my male along beside her with the leash on him.. she was a nose down type.... some how the leash slipped out of my uncles hand.. they ran a huge circle and when they crossed back he was at least 20 yards in front barkin every breath ... still dragging the leash... i caught him and we went on to finish the hunt... the gyp beat my male by a huge poiint differance in the final cast.. thats when i realized that i wanted a heads up front end minded dog. barkin aint always winnin guys..

[gwyoung]

I never get aggravated with my dogs. If they are good dogs they get to stay and if their not ,they don't. If I take them hunting they will be good dogs, occassionally they will turn in a low performance, so what, It is not because they decided to lay down on you in anyway, they give their best under the circumstances, ( some of which we may not be aware of because they usually don't complain) they were not intentionally failing. We are still as good as friends as we were before I dropped the tailgate. Kind of like your kids, they will not catch every ball, make every shot, win every race, I hope we don't think any less of them when this happens, so what, rub their heads stop at the store on the way home and buy them a ice-cream or a bucket of chicken livers depending on who you have out.

[Jwagner]

i'm curious Augerhead have you always been in hounds since a child or is this sport something you picked up as an adult? The only reason I ask is that most that pick this sport up as an adult with little to know guidance go through what you went through. I have meant many people who start out and are just tickled to death with a dog that runs a track a 100 ft and it is a 2 year old dog. It's because they don't know any better. Once they gain experience like you did. you have grown to find your likes and dislikes in a hound. Not try to say anything with how people came into this sport, just something I have observed over the years. maybe not your case, but I bet more then a fews case on this board. Well back to the original question, I have evolved over the years. when I was a young boy walking dogs out to the state land in the town I grew up in. I expected what my dad, told me a hound should be and do. So when they didn't perform to what he had said, I would be disappointed and vice versa, when they did perform in that manner. I would be really excited to go home and tell him. As I became older and ran dogs a lot by myself I started to develop my own standard of what I like in a dog. Some expectations didn't change, but the style of hound I liked compared to my dad was a little faster, hunted a little deeper, got a little wider in the check. I guess you could say, I became my own houndsman. But I had a good foundation laid on what a rabbit dog should be able to do.

[wvden]

I started out as a rabbit hunter. The dog had to jump and circle back to the gun..period. As long as they hunted and didnt run trash I was happy. Reg. or grade. Then started to trial, for a while. Found out real quick that the trails idea of a dog and mine are way different. They want hot nosed, fast git the lead at all cost dogs. Now i'm happy to be just a rabbit hunter again with a line of dogs that have a medium nose and lots of hunt. Must jump and circle the rabbit by its's self.A few early barks or a wide check...not to worry about. I guess ive come full circle.

Dave

[dog]

they are far from perfect , lol , but m not willing to sell them off too try to find better , i dont do this to try and have the best , i do it because it is fun , i truely love it , i have had dogs that i didnt like , ive had good dogs i didnt like , dont really know why i didnt like them , just didnt , was never too critical of my dogs until i started finding these internet site and quickly fell into the trap , listening to peoples opinions on these things started making me question my dogs , then i started running with some people here and there from these sites and quickly found out that there really wasnt anything wrong with my dogs , ive had good dogs and bad dogs , never had a great dog , in most others eyes anyway ,think i may have had some in my eyes though , i have seen some really impressive dogs run but i am still of the opinion that while there is a huge difference between a bad dog and a good dog , there is very fine line between a good dog and a great dog , after all good or great they and only run a rabbit so well ! no dog is perfect ! as long as it is decently clean the only thing that matters to me is the end result , it doesnt matter if that end result is a rabbit in the bag or standing there and watching it go by , its all the same to me , they finished what they started , they dont have to look like a million bucks doing it !

[dog]

I never get aggravated with my dogs. If they are good dogs they get to stay and if their not ,they don't. If I take them hunting they will be good dogs, occassionally they will turn in a low performance, so what, It is not because they decided to lay down on you in anyway, they give their best under the circumstances, ( some of which we may not be aware of because they usually don't complain) they were not intentionally failing. We are still as good as friends as we were before I dropped the tailgate. Kind of like your kids, they will not catch every ball, make every shot, win every race, I hope we don't think any less of them when this happens, so what, rub their heads stop at the store on the way home and buy them a ice-cream or a bucket of chicken livers depending on who you have out.