extra barking on a rabbit track..

[Mapel Valley Kennels LLC.]

[quote="pilotknob"]From my exp.mouth and being able to use it right has more to do with brains than nose.If they are gona stay here if they are not making forward progress on a line with a rabbit at the other end they better keep their yaps shut.[/quote
Dont know your location however you must live in the south, I know cold trailing is a little different up north, but in my region its useless. Too me a dog that Barks constantly in a check area needs a dirt nap. Bark when ya run and shut up when ya lose it.

[bucks better beagles]

Right On MVK: These boys who talk about cold noses and cold track running should be made to stand around in the mornings with the temperature about 10 degrees and listen to that type of hound run a food trail.

C-low you are really beginning to pee me off. Giving another man credit for the quote I stole from another man 40 years ago is Unthinkable. It goes like this:

I want a dog to run 100% of the rabbit, 100% of time. Be as fast as possible and as slow as necessary.

[mybeagles]

It's amazing to me that everyone knows what the appropriate amount of barking is and has never smelled a rabbit track. The way I determine that is if they jump it or not. If they come up with the rabbit obviously they were not barking too early even if it was 5 minutes before the jump. If they don't produce a rabbit it seems to me they were barking out of place.

Most have seen those "clean mouthed" dogs that wont bark until its jumped not be able to run a fresh jump 20 yards. To smart to bark I guess.

Some of those "never bark out of place" hounds never bark all winter in the north country. Oh, and they don't bark much on a hot summer day either.

Nobody likes a babbling idiot (almost nobody), but a hound that jumps the majority of the rabbits, solves most of the long checks but has some "extra barks" can be a real race saver and pleasure to own.

A fast, only bark when rabbit is sprinting dog will win lots of trophies. There is no denying that, but you see more rabbits brought to the gun with the cold nosed dog. Find a guy that consistently kills 100+ rabbits a year a he will have a cold nosed dog in the pack and maybe more. Killing rabbits isn't the only way to prove a dogs worth, but I would bet a fortune that many of the Field Champions out there today would need serious help from a cold nosed dog to bring 100 rabbits to gun in a single season.

Lets hear from the guys who never or rarely field trial and hunt rather than pleasure run. The guys that have 50 plus hunts in a season with the intention of harvesting rabbits.

Of the last 40 hounds I have owned 34 of them had average or below average noses. Among the other 6, 3 would fit the babble category, 3 had extra mouth but were very productive. The productive ones were great additions to any pack, but clearly bother some of you to death. The 34 that lacked nose is what bothers me to death.

Mybeagles

Mybeagles

[dog]

When a race comes to a stop due to the rabbit pulling a check I want my dogs silent. WHen they pick up the scent I want them to claim it with a authority and fire out of it. I expect this as well when they over run the line, shut up and come back to the line and when they have it go. I feel its lack of brains and self control. Even if they are inches off the line they shouldn't be giving mouth.

I have seen and owned several dogs that could run a track several inches to feet off the line and make
every turn with the rabbit and not miss a beat.
That is nose power when tracking conditions are favorable. if tracking wasn't favorable they would straddle
the track. That is nose power and brains, a dog that has to straddle a track to run it either lacks nose, speed
or maybe experience.
When a rabbit runs it's scent is dispersed in a pattern not just one little line on the ground.
A dog that has to run on the exact line a rabbit ran is running the rabbits foot scent, and not body scent.
When I got Fife Creek Rowdy to Maryland, I took him to run stinking Marsh rabbits.
I watched him run several feet off the line and was burning it up for an old dog, just depends how well they can smell it.
I have bred and owned several dogs that could do it and these dogs save several chases!
If a dog produces 7 or 8 times out of 10, that is fine with me.

Hey Casey what ever happened to Moe, I don't hear you speak about him at all any more?

AMEN !

[mybeagles]

I have seen and owned several dogs that could run a track several inches to feet off the line and make
every turn with the rabbit and not miss a beat.
if tracking wasn't favorable they would straddle the track. That is nose power and brains, a dog that has to straddle a track to run it either lacks nose, speed
or maybe experience.

You are a blessed man if you have owned several dogs that could run several feet off the line on good scenting days and then straddle the line on poor scenting day. Been at this sport a long time and have seen both extremes and some in the middle but never one that would go to both extremes. Can I ask what bloodlines these hounds were from?

Mybeagles

[smokedawg]

I have 8 hounds that I hunt with. I never bring more than 6 at a time. We dont trial, only rabbit hunt and pleasure run. When hunting season is in I hunt a minimum of 3 times per week. The last few months of season, I use up all my vacation time and sometimes hunt 5 to 6 days in a row. I have 7 dogs that I consider to have a pretty good nose, they hunt hard and can run a rabbit pretty darn good most of the time. I have 1 male dog that is 4 years old that has a big nose on him. He can take an old track and move it and jumps the rabbit up almost every time if you give him a minute. He will open on the track a little early before the other dogs but I dont mind cause he is moving the track and almost always produces the rabbit. The other hounds that I own only open up when the rabbit is up and running, I would consider them to be hot nosed if their is such a thing. The big nosed dog i have is good in the check. He dont pop off. If he opens up, he's got it and is moving out with it. Guess which dog dont ever get left behind when Im bringing the shotgun. When I was I kid I hunted with an old man that lived down the road from me. He taught me a lot about hounds. He told me one time when we were discussing dogs opening early on a track and if they had a big nose or not, he said if you want a dog that can run one in july and august, he is gonna open early on a track in January and February.

[Casey Harner]

Question for MdBeagler and Dog.


When you say your dogs can run a few feet off the line are you talking about on a big running rabbit? Where I run there is a long strip of red briars that stretches for 2 football fields. The rabbits run once around the briars then after that one circle they start to double back on there tracks, cut in and out of the briars. Without the line control and brains, the running would be a train wreck.

My question is this how does your dogs fair when the rabbit runs crazy patterns, like double backs or when the rabbit just sits down?? Do they snap back to the line? I just figured they would fly by the sitting rabbits since they are a few feet off the track/line?? Just wanted your thoughts?

[dog]

he has the brains to tighten up when he has too , but he also has has the brains to go with it when he can. that meaning if it is good scenting and he can wind scent it from a few feet away with his head up he will ,and yes i call that brains , why move over and drop your nose to find the tract when you already have it where your at and can run it from there , i hunt reclaimed strip mine land also , he will stradle the track in the thickets but when that rabbit heads out across the grass he better be moving because its usually head up running out there . my other dogs are strickly track runners , on good scent days i have seen him control the front and very seldom was he ever directly over the track , and i know where the track was because my other dogs were straddling it , on tougher scent he tightens up great but will still run the front of my dogs

[eddywilliams]

The line I have have NOSE POWER and use their mouth correctly predominantly .I have seen HBCH STYLISH DAKOTA out of Tuna run on frozen snow and then on dusty sod and circle rabbits and in the trials never take a minus for alone for non producing or barking off this also applies to GRHBCH RABBIT RIDGE CLETUS seen him circle rabbits in the same conditionson frozen ground barking when scenting is right nort all around and on dust ,not bragging just stating my preference .For example we pulled in to run a buddy brought a friend and his dog I seen the dogs smelling in the path where the bunny had been before daylight the friends dog started barking around here and there while ours trailed down into the briars 3o yards and barked as they jumped the rabbit as the other dog made haste we would have taken 2nd or 3rd strike in a trial if the bunny was seen for plus points but alone this dog later on took several non produces NOT MY TYPE

[bucks better beagles]

My Beagles: You said, "but I would bet a fortune that many of the Field Champions out there today would need serious help from a cold nosed dog to bring 100 rabbits to gun in a single season".

You may have been being rhetorical but I will take that bet. I don't have a fortune, nor access to the qualifier "many" field champions but I will bet on the only one close and I have never seen him run. You name the amount and I will bring the dog. You can also pick the weather. Just try to go where there may be a few rabbits.

I know of others but their owners will have to bet on them. How about it Jamie? Think those dogs of yours can meet this challenge? Harry? Steve?

Second question, What could you possibly do with 100 rabbits in a reason?

[Alabama John]

The bottom line after all these years of running with different breeds and styles of beagles I have come to this conclusion:

If I lived where you do and ran in the conditions and territory you run in, I would want the type dog you prefer.
If you hunted and ran down here where I do, you would want what I like as it suits these conditions.
Take mine to some of yalls places to run and in your winter conditions and mine would look stupid.
That's why we differ so, its because of the condition differences, and I will add, the running style of the rabbits hunted sure plays a part too.

Bottom line is all of us are right in what we prefer and breed for!

[dog]

The bottom line after all these years of running with different breeds and styles of beagles I have come to this conclusion:

If I lived where you do and ran in the conditions and territory you run in, I would want the type dog you prefer.
If you hunted and ran down here where I do, you would want what I like as it suits these conditions.
Take mine to some of yalls places to run and in your winter conditions and mine would look stupid.
That's why we differ so, its because of the condition differences, and I will add, the running style of the rabbits hunted sure plays a part too.

Bottom line is all of us are right in what we prefer and breed for!

hit the nail right on the head

[warddog]

I don't mind a beagle that opens when working up a cold track just as I never minded it when I competition coon hunted as long as the dog produces it's quarry. Won many hunts with a cold nosed dog that would strike those ole bad feeder tracks, put a tree on them AND have the meat! Don't know much about beagle trials but sure don't fault a dog that opens, works up the track and produces a rabbit while others are looking at it, like it's stupid. In my eyes that's a hunting dog not a running dog as it's hunted and worked up it's quarry just as it was bred to do. I was taught as a kid that a dog must pay for it's keep and one that produces the game is one that got kept and when it opened up was never a part of the equation. The scoring was done with the meat on the table as we couldn't feed a family with 7 kids with a paper scorecard although I have eaten some old tough rabbits that were like leather! I also have no idea of what EXTRA barking is either because if the dog barking produces a rabbit then evidently it was barking on a rabbit track so how can that be extra? Seen it many times where a dog opens when the others can't and finally works it to the point that they can smell it and open although they have been in and out of the track numerous times they were never able to move it.

[augerhead]

I still think you guys are talking about many different things. Let me put it this way, we hunt alot at night, running from the edge of dark untill we get weak. What I want to be able to do is when my dog barks be confident he is doing right not worried about wether hes got it or not. I don't want to wonder if it is covered, if he is just check barking if he is back tracking alittle or just using his "big nose". To me a dog should pick up and go on others should cover and open when they get a smell. A dog that opens a lot and nothin covers, or a dog that is never out that opens as soon as something else does barks too much.I geuss alot of guys just want to kill a rabbit in that case barking too much to them is not an issue as long as they produce the rabbit. Thats fine but what see low is talking about is a hole different story, competative men who want to win and spend alot of time trying to convince others that barking wins. I 've heard every thing you could imagine from nose power, doing the work,to there was more than one rabbit or maybe it doubled back and forth a couple times. If you are just trying to kill a rabbit and that is the way you win then the issue that seelow is talking about isn't an issue to you. If you think that a dog can't run a rabbit or has no nose if it barks correctly, well, you are wrong And I hope you get the chance someday to own one! JMO

[mybeagles]

You may have been being rhetorical but I will take that bet. I don't have a fortune, nor access to the qualifier "many" field champions but I will bet on the only one close and I have never seen him run. You name the amount and I will bring the dog. You can also pick the weather. Just try to go where there may be a few rabbits

Buck,

I guess I'm looking for trouble by continuing this thread but I've never been one to dodge controversy. I'm talking about the faster style hounds. Maybe I should have clarified that. These run to catch 15" hounds. Its not ALL of them, but a good many.

You show me a hound that will lead a pack of 4-5 and I will show you a hound that wont consistently circle a rabbit in cold winter conditions. Not extreme, but cold and tough, say temps in the teens with dry snow.

I'm not wealthy either, but I would buy you the biggest steak dinner you can eat if we can qualify a Little pack grand champion, or Large pack champion or Midwest champion that can lead a pack of hounds in good conditions and then circle 2 out of 5 rabbits he jumps in tough conditions as stated. I'm guessing you must be referring to a world beater you have close by, which they do exist, but on average most cant. I think it would be a good challenge either way and I'm game.

I'm not coming at this challenge as a guy that owns a bunch of hounds that can consistently circle rabbits in tough conditions but I have owned a couple in my life and they are not the ones that win field trials. Before anyone gets so upset they cant swallow, I do enjoy field trials and do think they prove the value of a hound for a particular niche, its just not running in northern hunting conditions. Take it how you will.

Buck my number is 502-295-7603. Give me a call and we can set something up. Findings to be reported on here at a later date!

Mybeagles