i think of a rough dog as a dog that is a swinging, skirting idiot that lacks the brains to keep the track between his legs!!!!. ive seen a dog look like a real rabbit dog one day and put him down with a few dogs that can actually pound the rabbit hard that dog turn into a swinging run for the front at any cost idiot, over running the track and only set on keeping the front and not the track... that to me is rough!!! im not sure if it just cant handle the pressure of the pack or lacks the brains to ignore the pack and concentrate on the track... i hate watching him run though!!!
as for the mouth= rough, i dont think giving extra mouth makes a dog rough, a babbling idiot lol----yes but rough --no! the dog might babble alittle bit in the check or getting one started but once the rabbit gets up he might pound the crap out of it... it all comes back to the brains!! i cant stand a mouthy dog period but just bc a dog might pop off early or alittle too much in a check never make me think he was rough, i just think he's mouthy...
i guess thats why so many people strive to find the dogs with BRAINS!!!! if you find a dog with alot of brains everything else seems to fall in place!
Rough?
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bluecollar beagler
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Re: Rough?
buck, Your pack, my pack, any pack, run together a lot or only once it is still a pack. I liked your phrase " natural aptitude" it is much overlooked and the natural aptitude of a dog is the most important aspect of placing hounds in a pack . Simply put, do not place dogs into a pack whose natural ability in a particular area ( speed is the most often abused factor) is not similar to the rest of the pack. He can be dis-similar in nose and not cause a problem but not on things such as speed) I will give a good example of how to build a good pack in one regard ( you could write an entire book on putting a pack together) and using something we are all familiar with. Here goes , When running a dog solo he runs at a 7 on speed when you run him with a dog that runs an eight on speed do you notice the seven speeds up and runs at an eight, , kind of like some were asking that he do, he should not, his natural aptitude is seven he runs at a seven when ran solo, he is a seven. Do not ask him to be an eight, here is where rough comes in, the eight will drag him to places he shouldn't go or if the eight is a good hound ( not rough) the sped up seven wont be doing any of the work. I will admit that most dogs even very good ones will speed up ever so slightly over their solo speed due to a little competitiveness that all should possess, but not a full step in speed. this is simply trying to keep up and should not be allowed. Take four dogs like I just described, ones that wont be inclined to run beyond their natural speed , (I assume they are good dogs in all other respects or you would not keep them) but anyway take four dogs like I just described and put them together and you will have a very good pack. No dogs in the pack will be running at a speed beyond what their natural ability allows , their naturall ability will then be show cased, if we have done our part in the breeding dept. then this natural ability in the pack members will compliment each other and a smooth running pack will result. Most packs I see are one or two dogs jerking or pulling the rest around.
Re: Rough?
A rough dog is a dog that harms the rest of the pack instead of helping it. That is the simplest way to describe it. Never heard a person say they have a rough dog that helps the pack run smooth with few break downs. As stated a rough dog goes were the rabbit is not going, so how could this help the pack run better.....Just my opinion.....DH
Re: Rough?
While on the subject of packs, it appears some judges and handlers alike seem to think that the object of the field trial is to put a good smooth pack together. Either their definition of a pack is different than mine or they or I are not understanding the idea of a field trial. I hear all the time about judges who eliminated dogs until they had a smooth running pack and I often hear that you could cover them with a blanket, This may well end up being the case but this is not what the judges should be trying to do. It is their job to pick the 4 or 5 top dogs not put a tight pack together. When I hunt it is my job to put a pack together but if I was judging this would not be my priority. Let me illustrate by something I actually saw at a trial several years ago. It was in the bitch class I don't remember if it was 13" or15" but anyhow there was a open marked Branko bred bitch in the pack that was running at about an eight on speed and the rest of the pack were running at about a six. ( just for the record I don't care for Branko hounds personally.) This bitch was running hard and was as clean as any hound in the pack. to say she was leaving nothing for the rest of the pack to do was an understatement. I am sure some in the gallery saw far more of her run than either judge as they were staying up with the rest of the pack and hardly ever saw her . she was the first dog picked up. the owner was upset . I don't remember all that was said but it came down to her disrupting the smooth running of the pack as I understood it. She was doing nothing wrong and was picked up because the judges were apparently trying to put a tight pack together. I was impressed with how fast she made the turns and I am sure she went on to become a field champion ,she was very good. In my opinion She was done a dis-service by judges who did not understand that they should be looking for the best individuals not trying to put the best pack together.
Re: Rough?
The object of judging a field trial should not be to put together a smooth running pack, the object is to get the dogs out that are causing the break downs at every turn. Once the pack is running with out a faulty dog breaking up the race then, you can pick the best running dog in that pack. The ones in the rear not getting anything done also get picked up and are out. The dog that is running with the best speed and can make the turns and keep the rabbit going is the winner. A dog being picked up for running too much rabbit as they say is something that would happen more in P.A. in the North East, here in New York at the SPO trials I have been to, the dogs are RUNNING and I do mean RUNNING!!!! No grass growing under them at all!
Re: Rough?
deerhost, What I think you are saying, is that you agree!