Rough?

[Mapel Valley Kennels LLC.]

Hey thanks to everyone for the info! Thats why i love this site. Good people and good info.

We all have a diploma for Beagletologist- PHD.Universety Of Hard Knocks.Lou-Ra-Kaka.

[bucks better beagles]

Chist: I think Newt has it right..."Too rough means, my dog can't keep up and get any of the action".

I like my dogs to be on the front end of any rabbit race. If a dog can keep a rabbit going with speed, consistency and no extra mouth, he he is not rough. The problem comes when a rough dog starts to cheat and messes up a race with over-barking. I don't think any amount of soloing can take the 'rough" out of a dog. When you put him back with a pack, he will do what comes naturally. I also believe that "rough" is not a learned trait but more of a genetic one. Rough dogs are in the eye of the beholder and match the experience and expectations of the owner. Run what keeps you interested.

[Greg Wells]

Rough is not really a term used in the AKC rulebook, but when a judge in the Mid-West tells you your dog is too rough, he means too wide in the check area & straying too far from the point of loss too quickly.

[Ohiohntr]

I use the term "Rough" to mean a combination of these
- Skirting/swinging off the line to gain position within the pack (usually for the front)
- Slipping the check area without mouth to gain advantage
- Hit here, hit there, hit everywhere
- Running all over heck without purpose
- Opposite of smooth

[Greg Wells]

Looks like it means different things to everyone, so christ1971, when a judge tells you your dog is rough, you better ask them to be more specific.

[fasttrackpa]

I use the term "Rough" to mean a combination of these
- Skirting/swinging off the line to gain position within the pack (usually for the front)
- Slipping the check area without mouth to gain advantage
- Hit here, hit there, hit everywhere
- Running all over heck without purpose
- Opposite of smooth

[deerhost]

The way a dog runs is bred into them. No amount of solo time will make a rough dog a clean dog. Solo time just makes a dog more independent and will force the dog to reach it's potential. A dog that is by it's breeding rough will always have a tendency to stay rough.....DH

[gwyoung]

I agree with George Pirman on the meaning of rough. deerhost's last post is full of good advice. A fast rough dog running is an ugly thing to have to look at ,but the ugliest running you will ever see has to be slow and rough!

[barnold1]

The way a dog runs is bred into them. No amount of solo time will make a rough dog a clean dog. Solo time just makes a dog more independent and will force the dog to reach it's potential. A dog that is by it's breeding rough will always have a tendency to stay rough.....DH

So, do you think it's all genetic, or can environment (running with rougher packs/formats) develop such habits?

[deerhost]

I think the way a dog runs is in it's genetics. I do think you can make a clean running dog a bit rough by running with a rough pack. But a rough dog by nature will run rough no matter who you run them with and will get rougher with pack pressure....Just my opinion....DH

[bucks better beagles]

As a pack animal, shouldn't a dog run at the speed of the pack? A dog whose natural aptitude is to run a little slower rabbit than one who likes to be fast and rough, must improve his game if he is run with the rougher dog. Each should compliment the other. In a pack of 6 or more, you will generally have one or more that comes off the ends and edges in a rough manner. The rest of the pack must compensate or they will be nothing but "back packers". The middle of the pack dogs also have the opportunity and obligation to make checks and move the rabbit when their ticket is punched.

[deerhost]

If you get rid of that lead dog that is rough and goes over the end then there will be no need for the middle dogs to fix or find a check, hence you get fewer break downs and less checks. To me when we are talking about dogs that are too rough, we are talking about dogs that create checks or do more harm to the rest of the pack then good. The same goes for dogs at the other end of the pack. If they are too slow or conservative to get any work done with the rest of the pack then they should also be culled, there are always beaglers who are running a slower speed and maybe that dog at the end would fit into a more conservative pack. I am not a big trialer and only attend a handfull of Northeast SPO trials here in NY, but when you have 7 dogs running at a trial and there is a break down or check every fifty yards you start looking at the lead dogs. If the lead dogs are running the front and can handle it then there would not be break downs usually in those situations there is a problem with the first couple of front running dogs causing the break downs. Once the problem dog is discovered and removed its amazing how much the runs smooth out with alot fewer break downs. Same again with the end of the pack dogs, if they can't do any work they get picked up. I think we could all learn something with how we put our packs together from this. The end result should be a pack that runs as fast as it can with the least amount of break downs and the smoothest runs.... Deerhost

[hard on a check]

The end result should be a pack that runs as fast as it can with the least amount of break downs and the smoothest runs....

[gwyoung]

Buck, yes, I agree as pack animals all beagles should run at the speed of the pack. Here is where a lot of folks go wrong when putting a pack together. It is not the dogs job to " improve his game and run with the rougher dog" if this happens you simply have another rough dog. I do not expect a dog who runs a six on speed to simply pick up and run an eight because he is running with an dog who is an eight on speed , this shows lack of independence and brains and this dog will be running way above his ability to trail the rabbit and he will be darn rough doing it, It is our job to put a pack of the same speed together this is not the job of the beagle.

[bucks better beagles]

My post isn't referring to a personal pack but rather running with different dogs constantly. There are many dogs that I run with that I wouldn't keep around my house but, they belong to friends who I choose to be with. My dogs, therefore must adapt to them and they adapt to my dogs. Any dog that does not or can not hark to the front end of pack is doomed to run in the tail end. When running snowshoes or fox, these type of dogs will get totally thrown out of the race. If you have 6 or more dogs down and moving fast with few checks, there will only be one or two dogs that are smelling the rabbit at any given time. The third, fourth, etc. dogs are packing up which is what they are supposed to do until they can get there chance to shine.

"Rough" is not necessarily an absolute negative term. To me, it means that I am dealing with a smart dog and it takes smart dogs to stay with him. If you begin to quantify how much "rough" a dog can be, then you turn it into another term, such as swinging, skirting, or cutting to the front. I can deal with any of those traits as long as they do not babble while doing it. JMO