MYTH or FACT

[gwyoung]

Can hunters hurt the population , yes. But not if the area is being hunted for future harvests in mind. If you go to an area and shoot twenty rabbits but only shoot rabbits that circle or run for an extended period of time you will kill mostly males. Does this hurt the population, no, but it reduces it by twenty for this season only, Do it again and kill ten and the population is down by thirty. go back three more times and kill eight, six, and four and the population is down by forty eight and you should notice the decline in the population by the decrease in your kills. This is clearly hunting reducing the population for that season, But, does it hurt the population for next season. probably not as most of the females would not be killed. Now if what is left on this property gets hunted relentlessly by jump shooters kill two ,come back kill two more, and hunt it until then can hardly jump another rabbit coupled with natural mortality and predators , hunting has definitely hurt this population not only for this year but for next year as well. My next statement is not going to be popular with some folks, but If you go into an area and rabbits are everywhere ,you can't run one rabbit without jumping two others, you are shooting strays right and left because you thought they were what your dog was running and you kill forty rabbits you have NOT hurt the population for the next year and have not hurt it for the current year either, You have reduced it by forty rabbits but no harm will be done. Consider something some of us can relate to a little better, can shooting only bucks at deer season hurt the population , the answer is no it can reduce it by the amount of bucks killed and it will become more difficult to kill a buck as there are fewer out there but will it hurt the population no, the population will continue to grow every year. Only by killing the does can the population be " hurt". small game are the same as deer in this regard the only difference is that they are smaller. So rabbit hunting done correctly will not hurt the population, ( but there will be less rabbits) incorrectly done and it can and often is the biggest of the determining factors in poor rabbit populations. So, guys run 'em for awhile before you shoot!

[likeemfast]

I know the fox coyote hawks owls possums crows bobcats weasels and what ever else eats a rabbit will check to make sure their taking bucks only so they have happy hunting from year to year too.

[gwyoung]

Weasels and Mink are a major and I mean major killer of rabbits. You know what a major killer of weasels and Mink are? Hawks and Owls.( Coyotes will also control the foxes and bobcats in a particular area.) Does this mean I want to import more hawks ,owls, and Coyotes into the area, No, It simply means they like all animals have value in the right proportions. So if you want more weasels and Mink reduce the hawks and Owls. Most predators will kill more males than females, females travel less and spend more time in holes. Guess what enters holes and kills the females, you guessed it mink and weasels!

[likeemfast]

exactly my point. if we as beaglers think when we stomp thru the bush with our hounds we kick out every rabbit thats there and then shoot it we are absolutely crazy, i know me and my hounds dont for sure, and if any of you think you do ur sadly mistaken. we do very well and shoot many rabbits a year and if i go back to a area and dont see any sign of predators the population is weak. we as sportsmen can put a dent in the population but until we get these protected killers off the dont shoot list we will have poor popluations in some areas. where u see yotos u wont see fox, absolutely, but where u see fox u dont see yotes normally. fox know when coyotes take over a area its either move on or get predated just like the rabbits. 24 hours a day 365 days a year predators can clean out an area without the right habitat, period.

[scott calkins]

i know it hurts the hare population for sure in mi . one thing is hare only have one litter a yr. thats what a DNR biologist told me and i believe that hare female or male the dogs can circle so the saying that if a cotton tail circles its a male. does not apply to hare. so there for you kill a whole litter when females are shot and there litters are much smaller 2 to 4 . just food for thought. we have a hare hunt camp every yr but always watch how many we harvest due to paying attention to how much game there is in the givin area. we take less if only seeing one hare in front of dogs verses several like sometimes is the case.

[Bunnyblaster]

Something else I thought of is making just 1 or 2 trips a year to a given place doesn't always give us a good idea of the population imo. I only say that because I have gone to areas and jumped next to nothing one day only to go the next time and have multiple jumps with lots of good runs. I have also gone to areas that I didn't notice much sign but on that particular day we ran plenty of rabbits and the same in reverse..........lots of sign but not much to run. Although I do think that most of us run our spots often enough to have a better feel for what's going on at them.

I posted this once before on another thread but I'll say it again. The areas that seem to be slim on rabbits I do very little if any gunning on. I had a spot once that got real thin with rabbits and then one year it seemed to really bounce back. Not quite to what it had been before but it was better. We shot out a few rabbits that day.........4 I think and for the rest of the season we had trouble jumping anything. Looking back I can't help but wonder if it was one of those cases where the rabbits were just out and wanted to run that day giving us the impression there were more rabbits there than there actually were. Since then I heir a little more on the side of caution when I know there is an area that is starting to make a comeback........lesson learned. Now we can get at least a few rabbits up to run there again.

[wvforester]

Carrying capacity. An area will hold as much of a species of wildlife as it can support until it reaches its capacity and then level off. If you have cover, food, water the population will rise to its maximum level. Its true for all animals. Rabbits are food, so when their population increases the predators needs are met and their numbers rise. When the limit is met and the population exceeds environmental needs, then animals die off. Rabbits breed so prolifically that they will replenish populations back to the carrying capacity of their range quickly. The 7 year thing has some truth in that the rabbit population may reach carrying capacity limits and in turn predator population can then increase. But as the predator population food needs exceeds the food supply (rabbit population) both populations decrease. The rabbits population will be always be followed by predator population in an increase or decrease as they are postively correlated. Think of deer having singles, twins, or triplets in relationship to last years mast crop. DNR will increase or decrease the doe season limits to mimic the appropriate predation level. If not, things like black tongue disease, satarvation, etc. will restore the balance with a population crash.

[Rowco Beagle Kennels]

I was going to stay out of this one because I have no scientific evidence to back up my opinions. However, reading with great interest. I have come to a conclusion. My great interest is due to the fact that in our immediate area this has been a very bad year for rabbits. We definitely have an increase in coyottes to the point they have come in my yard and have attacked dogs running several times. However, we are also seeing a good number of fox, mostly gray. Hawks are every where. Science or not we are experiencing this. I believe most of the opinions expressed on here are based on the experience of the hunter in his or her area and they are stating the facts as they have experienced them. There is one problem in all this. We blamed the hurricane for a lot of our problem because we saw a sudden, dramatic decline immediately after it hit. But as we were forced to look at some new places we found that there were still SPOTS in our area that are loaded with rabbits and have had a couple of Saturdays in a row where the hunting is fantastic. So, I feel like I know less than when I started to try to figure it out. I will say this. I believe that Lee Cockman's last statement about how he hunts his area makes a lot of sense. I hunt when I can at the trials they put on up there and it is one of the best places I get to go. They must be doing something right. Bobby

[Rabbit Fever]

http://thewebsiteofeverything.com/anima ... canus.html

[Rabbit Fever]

The linkI just put on is for information about the Hare. It explaines the whole thing about their life cycle.

[warddog]

I don't see what is was so difficult to understand in my post maybe next time I need to upload some pictures for anyone having a problem understanding it. I have no relatives that I know of living in any state other than Indiana, Florida, Kansas and Missouri. I doubt there is any one out there packing a degree in rabbit population factors so as Rowco stated we are probably all speaking to what we have experianced in our lifetimes. When habitat deminishes, predators increase and the properties that once held plenty of game no longer do, those that do hold game have more hunting pressure put on them than they would if those other properties were still holding game because others are going to go where there is game. I think gwyoung understood what I was alluding to and his statement of killing bucks I will agree with but when a piece of property is hunted hard and the bucks killed down that leaves only does to be taken if any are there to take. Someone else made an anology to deer and I have witnessed that very thing on the acerage that I own when they opened up the taking of a buck plus 8 to 10 does per county. This property sits only a half mile from an adjacent county so hunters killing their limit of one buck and up to 16 does can and have had an impact on total numbers over time. Also with the deer there are much fewer predators than with rabbits but I have witnessed over the years since the opening up of the killing of so many does that seeing deer on this property isn't even close to what it used to be when you could see 8 to 10 does every time out up to now when you are lucky to even see a couple does much less a buck worth shooting. When I see that a State DNR uses hunters to control the numbers of game then that tells me that man has a direct impact on game populations through hunting. FACTS are regardless of all other varibles, nothing is regulated except what the ultimate predator takes.

[gwyoung]

wardog wrote," When I see that a state DNR uses hunters to control the numbers of game then that tells me that man has a direct impact on game populations through hunting". This very profound answer certainly wins the prize for best answer to a question on here that I have heard in quite some time. Not only does it tell wardog something it should tell the rest of us as well.
T LEE, I think you have your answer!

[Bunnyblaster]

I agree with hunters having an impact......no doubt. But at least in our state the dnr has done very little if anything to improve habitat for our furry little friends or any other "small game" for that matter. I can't help but wonder how many rabbits we would have running around if the state AND us ourselves did a little more to improve the habitat where we could. I have places that used to hold tons and I mean tons of rabbits. We hunted the snot out of those places right along with the coyotes, fox, hawks, owls and everything else and can you believe it never seemed to make a dent in the population until the farmer that owned the area went through and cleared a bunch of the cover to expand his field?? There's still some decent cover and a few rabbits to run but nothing near like there used to be.


Something else I'd be interested in finding out is just how many small game hunters we have today compared to past years when I remember hearing very little complaining about finding rabbits to run. Some of the old timers up here tell me there used to be many more rabbit hunters in there day and nowadays it seems most just wanna chase deer instead. I can't help but wonder if less areas to hold rabbits just means more competition for the areas that do. Just curious since we want to be so quick to place most of the blame on over hunting.

One last thought, I'm not saying wardogs statement doesn't have some validity to it. But one thing I have learned over the years is just because it came out of the mouth of a state employee or representative that doesn't automatically make it fact. That being said I could make the same statement about habitat, food, other predators.........they ALL have a varying degree of impact on the rabbit population if any one of them gets out of line. FACT

[Bunnyblaster]

I reread the original question one more time and after my last post I would have to think that the answer is yes in some cases and no in others. I've seen too many examples in the past of an area you just can't seem to over hunt but cut loose a few stray cats and I bet you see a dent in the rabbits.

[gwyoung]

bunnyblaster, You just couldn't seem to over-hunt the area because you were doing it right. Cats will kill males, females, and young, if we as hunters do that then the rabbits would be gone. My answer was yes and no also. If done properly hunting will not hurt the population from year to year. If done improperly ( jump shooting for instance) then the population can be severely crippled. I realize the importance of good habitat for all species, but how many of us has went to ideal cover and the rabbits weren't there, I think the answer is all of us and it happens often. If you look hard enough you can find the old, empty shotgun hulls lying around. If you do not give the rabbits an opportunity to run before you shoot you are not a rabbit hunter in my opinion, Someone who would do so is probably not a hunter period I am sure they would treat squirrels, turkey, Deer, etc; in the same manner, which is kill all you can any way you can. I would not hunt with a man who did not give a rabbit a chance to run a little, nor would I associate with him at any time. Furthermore , if we are hunting an area and it is evident that the rabbits are scarce we pack up and leave , why do i want to find the last one, Pack up and leave!