jump vs hunt

[KYRABBITHUNTER]

One more trait I didn't mention was consistent. I have seen some good hounds have an excellent day jumping rabbits, but the real jump dog can do it consistently in different conditions.

I'm not a big pack hunter, but you describe the goal pretty accurately by saying the pack working as a one machine to produce a consistent race from start to finish. My first experiences rabbit hunting was more of a pack style and I never really enjoyed it (perhaps because of the quality of the pack). But the season that I hunted with the lemon dog I mentioned above got me hooked me big time. I immediately started buying dogs in hope of finding one like him........and 20-years later I've had two really good dogs, but still looking for that one DAWG that can do it all with the best of 'em.

[lebro]

a pack of dogs is a thing of beauty. most want the best dog out of a pack i want the best pack work together and not compete against each other.
jump dogs have big nose power and it has been bred out of a lot of dogs that is why we dont have many jump dogs. i had a post to see whether people would rather have a dog that excels at jumping or trailing and it seemed most wanted a trailing dog. so thit stands to reason most dogs are bred to trail more so than jump. i hope i didnt confuse anybody because i had to read my own post three times these are my opinions and nothing more

[gwyoung]

In my opinion the greatest trait of a jump dog is desire. Think about this. For what reason does your dog jump a rabbit, Does he do it because he knows you like to shoot and eat them, Does he do it to because he knows that a good chase makes you happy? Now your dog may love you and you may love him but when your dog goes about the business to jump a rabbit he doesn't give you any thought at all, he doesn't even care if you are present. He does it all for himself. The desire to chase and or kill is the fire that is burning within him. A big nose ,experience, intelligence, all compliment this desire , but those three without desire will not jump a rabbit, but desire without the other three will jump you a ton of rabbits. When folks talk about breeding hunt into a dog they are really talking about breeding the desire to hunt into a dog. Desire needs to be cultivated to reach it's highest level when the dog is young he has to be exposed to rabbits, this should go without saying but it is how he is exposed that makes a difference. Most dogs are born with enough desire to jump rabbits ( This is different from enough desire to be a true jump dog) but they do not get exposed properly and therefore do not jump or even hunt.

[houndboy13]

some good posts here..are there things you guys look for in young pups that may let you know that they have good desire to get a rabbit and may become a dog that will jump rabbits for you, not necessarily become a true jump dog, even though that would be a bonus..and when looking at or starting young dogs what do you guys look for when seeing if a young dog will have really good desire, is it how bad they act to get rabbit? how they are looking and searching for rabbits? and are these some things that will show up early on in a young dog or will they develop this with the more exposure to rabbits.
gwyoung: you mentioned that pups should be exposed to rabbits in a certain way, could you tell some ways on how a young dog should be exposed to them..

[Casey Harner]

Desire drives a dog to look and.search. I have seen several half hunting dogs who might jump one or two rabbits but doesn't do it with consistency. A rabbit dog with a big nose and the brains to go with is what makes most dogs true jump dogs. Preacher said it there are jump dogs out there wind a rabbit. They got the nose to figure out which briar bush go in. I really believe the best jump dog in your pack probably has the best nose. Your hound needs desire and hunt as well because your hound won't be getting many jumps they are by your feet.

[rabbitearl]

gwyoung,I agree.The dog that jump so many rabbits for me.Love me more than anything.She would not hunt for anybody eles but me.I had a friend that would take her hunting and she would lay down on the ground were the other dogs be running one.Then I would come up and she see me.It was on then.Move to a new house in 93 and let my friend keep her until I put my dog pen up.She would not eat unless I was there.You could nearly see the tears in the dog eye as I left.I see this is very true from what your saying.Never seen it that way.

[gwyoung]

Intelligence, borne of experience is the #1 compliment to Desire. A big nose is also an asset but beagles do not pay attention to and are not careful to always work on the downwind side of a brush pile , he may go to a brush pile attempt to wind a rabbit from the upwind side just as often as he will the downwind side. These dogs when they go into a brush pile more likely than not a rabbit will come out. there will be a lot more he doesn't go into that holds rabbits and these rabbits will not be jumped. now if your dog does always pay particular attention to the wind ( which he doesn't) why does he do so,--- Intelligence, borne of experience! Most great jump dogs that I have seen ( and this hasn't been many) worked with their eyes and ears on the jump to a high degree also. I am convinced that if you had to give up one attribute that these dogs have, I would say take away their sense of smell. they would still be great jump dogs.Their desire is paramount, Intelligence borne of experience is their second greatest trait for jumping. I am not saying sense of smell is not important just that it is further down the line than the Desire to jump and the intelligence to know where to look. One other thing that all of you have heard or seen, That is the hounds that hunt better after they have ran the first one. That first rabbit is not increasing their intelligence or their nose power, They still possess them but they are not of much use to them until that first rabbit Kindles their desire!

[gwyoung]

houndboy13 there are many things you can do to develop the desire and some that you can do to minimize it. Without writing a book I will tell you a couple of mistakes I see made with young hounds in this regard. First off once your pup starts and is searching properly, do not take him out with dogs that never allow him an opportunity to jump one on his own. As soon as he starts searching one of the others jumps a rabbit and he runs to them and the chase is on. Next rabbit jumped by another dog and he runs to them and the chase is on. This constantly happens so your young hound gets the idea he will just hang around close to the others who are doing the jumping and wait for the rabbit. Something else I see is folks taking these young hounds to where there are no rabbits for them to jump, he shouldn't have to go through brush piles all day without jumping a rabbit. Lot of seemingly little things like this will make or break a hound.

[PABeagler]

I agree with Casey and Preacher. The best jump dogs are wind scenters because the spend their time more efficiently; they know where to go to find rabbits.

[bluemouse]

I agree a lot with what you guys are saying but to me its simple to me a jump dog is just born to be what they become. They are born with brains, nose, desire and are able to put the puzzle together. You can breed for it but how many pups turn into jump dogs even if both parents are good at it. Some lines might produce more some less, But I believe they are born with it and they know how to produce that rabbit.

[Casey Harner]

I agree a lot with what you guys are saying but to me its simple to me a jump dog is just born to be what they become. They are born with brains, nose, desire and are able to put the puzzle together. You can breed for it but how many pups turn into jump dogs even if both parents are good at it. Some lines might produce more some less, But I believe they are born with it and they know how to produce that rabbit.

I do agree all traits need be there.

[houndboy13]

seeing that a true jump dog has to have a combination of traits, intelligence, desire, good nose, and so on..and knows how to use all the tools he has been given, if a true jump dog showed up in your breedings would that be the dog you guys bred to..being that it obviously has many differant tools and just not 1 or 2 and has brains which is something you cant influence..i see alot of pups being sold outta ifc's and fc's, myself being someone who has bought a few pups outta some of these breedings..but how many if any ifc's or fc's are true jump dogs?? not trying to get off the subject cause what you guys are posting is helping me alot in trying to recognize things in dogs and young dogs that i own, and your posts have helped me understand the differance in a dog that jumps rabbits and a true jump dog..so thanks

[old blood beagles]

over the past 25 years of running hounds, I have had some great hounds, several good hounds and culls; but only two true jump hounds. A jump hound is a rare thing and it can not be bred, trained, taught or anything else. they just have it. Now I do agree that you have to put the time and tracks in front of them but they just have a magical touch when it comes to finding and jumping bunnies. Just because you have a hound that will jump more bunnies than the rest of you pack does make it a true jump hound. It makes it a jump hound for your pack and this is were alot of people get the term from but when you see that magic happen everyday, with your pack, with a friends pack, with complete strangers, solo, on home grounds, on grounds never hunted before you just stand there with your mouth wide open and a tear to your eye.............

[gwyoung]

houndboy13, The best jump dog I ever saw was simply outstanding in this regard . You could take two other jump dogs, yes jump dogs out with her and she would out jump both of them very easily. 2nd place was a good ways down the list from her. But I did not breed to her and I could have for several years due to her other faults that I could not overlook. You could jump every rabbit on the place with her but you could not run them with her in the pack.

[carolinaboy]

I wish all of my hounds had extreme jumping ability they dont , i have 1 real jump dog in my pack that finds rabbits that some miss it strange the others hunt past rabbits that she finds.