What is wrong with people?

[scott calkins]

i think you were rite to be upset i know i was the first time it happened to me but there were no adults two teens. i explained to them there actions were wrong and why . but i also took the chance and let them hunt with me rest of the day. and they both bought started dogs from me a yr later now they run trials and love hounds . this sport of ours is shrinking every yr. so the more youngins we involve the better. but my situation was different then yours. i might have done the same as you if stupid adults were involved.

[warddog]

Well, I said I wouldn't post to this again but beings Keith C. brought the principles of law to the table just as I was trying to do without citing case law. FACTS are that the precident has been set way back in 1805 with this case. This case is exactly what I stated in that the mere pursuit of a wild game animal with or without dogs or other members of your hunting party does NOT give one any possession of such game animal. The origianl case was won by Post who was the fox hunter but on appeal the highest court of the state, the supreme court ruled to over turn that decision as being contrary to law. It goes on to state that possession or ownership of a wild game animal is had only when one kills that animal and until that point it is fair game to ALL. A hunter with or without dogs in mere pursuit has NO rights to that game animal as it is fair game for anyone until killed. Now, the part that I disagree with Keith C. on is that there is precedent setting case law on this very issue and that does establish who was right and who was wrong when push comes to shove. The thought process of the dogs could have been shot or another hunter for that matter has NO bearing in the facts of this case as either of those things can happen any time we as hunters turn our dogs loose in the field when we have no idea of who else is hunting that area. I would suggest that folks having the opinion that attacking someone when they are within the rule of law look up and read this case as what transpired puts the a$$ chewer in a position of being charged with hunter harassment or worse yet opening up that can of whoop a$$ where something worse may have happened. Although as a sportsman I do not agree with what the other hunter did that hunter was within the rule of law to shoot that rabbit so he didn't teach those kids anything legally wrong. To beaglers like us it was a violation of hunter ethics and an unwritten rule but that and .50 cents will get you a cup of coffee but it won't keep you from being fined or something worse. What do you suppose the outcome would have been had this other hunter politely went back to his vehicle and called 911 on his cell phone to franticly report that he and his 10 year old kids had just been threatened by another hunter packing a firearm and they were at their vehicle waiting on the other party to return to their vehicle to settle the issue? Those who think these types of things don't excalate while out in the field over a stupid rabbit or deer stand, think again as I have not only witnessed it on others property but been involved with such crap myself on my own property just as another poster replied, not once but several times over my years of hunting.

[gwyoung]

wardog, you seem to be very well versed in the legal aspect of such matters so let me ask you a hypothetical. What If Joeyman, was to have another confortation in the field, his fault or not,and things go badly. Wouldn't the other side already have ample evidence for a court proceeding according to what Joeyman has already posted to show that he is aggressive, assumes the game belongs to him, confrontational, and is looking for trouble. Seems like the other side could have a good self defense case already in hand.

[Salzer mtn]

If Joey has to go to court he may do alright if he don't have to go up before JUDGE JUDY.

[bucks better beagles]

This post is so funny. I hope it goes on forever so I will add my useless 2 cents worth again. I am an old man now but I learned years ago that when approached by a man with a gun and a runny mouth, the first thing you look for is cover and a shooting lane. Joeyman had the chance to defuse this situation and he chose not to. Being an internet cowboy is a dangerous game in real life and the other man has a gun. There was nothing to gain here other than someone's ego flare. Remember. "fools rush in where angels fear to tread'. Caution, brother Joey, caution. It may save your life someday. Like the rabbits you shoot, when you are dead, you are dead forever. Over a rabbit!! I think not.

[deerhost]

This gets sketchy with the law. We don't exactly know what Joey said and we were not present. But I believe by law if a person confronts you in the woods or street or any place and acts in a threatning manor towards you either by what they are saying, there tone of voice or by other means and is holding a gun, its called menacing its a crime and a person has a right to defend them self. Now some would say this is hog wash but if the other person shoots and hurts someone like Joey in this situation and it goes to a trial the defense attorny would have a field day with someone like Joey, the shooter has a good chance of getting off scott free. Anyway, a few years back we were rabbit hunting on a club property that my hunting club had newly leased, it was the first time at the piece of property. We shot a few rabbits and then we heard someone walking thrue the woods shouting at us. It was the owner of the connecting track of land. He said, What the F$%K are you doing here??!!! and we told him our situation, he replied by telling us we were lying and called us every name in the book and a buch of F^&k heads. He then got on the phone and called the property owner who intern told him that he did actually lease the property to us. The crazy "NUT job" then got off the phone and said sorry, In turn I responded by telling him that If i were out in a supermarket or at work and someone talked to my like that I would knock there "Bleeping teeth out" I explained to him that I am a sportsmen and try to follow the law and I was representing my hunting club and all the other hunters in the area and I was going to just walk away this time. The lesson is, in the woods we are representing all oudoorsmen and should try to do the right thing. A stern but repectfull talking too would have been enough. The other lesson is eventually if you keep confronting people the way you did in the woods you will eventually find someone who will "Nock your teeth out'............ No disrepect to Joey, I enjoy his posts and videos and its good to see him on here......Happy New Year everyone.......Deerhost

[Ohiohntr]

I had trouble a few years ago with a trespasser whom shot directly towards my house at a deer running across my front lawn. I instantly turned red and confronted the person with my children watching on. In hindsight it was pretty stupid and I should have somehow handled it differently because he, having a gun, could have shot me dead right in front of my kids.

People are stupid but blowing up at someone who is holding a weapon is pretty stupid as well. The world is crazy and people will do amazingly dumb stuff over trying to kill an animal. It is better to walk away but nearly impossible when the blood is boiling.

[Bunnyblaster]

Buck, I respect most of what you have to say generally and I agree with what you are saying about getting shot over a rabbit. BUT, that does not mean we always have to cower in the bushes when someone wrongs us. Like I said before, fight or flee were his 2 options and he was mad enough he chose to speak his peace. I don't blame him one bit. He took a chance and he lived........maybe next time he won't.........maybe next time he'll invite the guys along, who knows??

And defuse insinuates the other guy was already upset. I think it is clear he was perfectly happy to either ignorantly or selfishly do what he did. So joey loudly explained why he better not do it again.

We've all been in a situation like that before and it is very easy to armchair quarterback after the fact. How's that old saying go??? Hind-sight is always 20/20.

[Mapel Valley Kennels LLC.]

Amazingly enuff i have watched several pages of what people would do over a rabbit being shot. hmm if it boils people that bad then sure as hell dont go to evansville and hunt or your fillings will be shattered very quickly.

[bucks better beagles]

Good post Deerhost and Ohiohntr, right on. In michigan, there used to be what I think was called a "Fleeing law". If you were put in a "menacing" situation, you were supposed to "flee" without retaliating. Now, that is not the case. I carry a gun wherever I go since I am too slow to run and too old to fight. Now, If you can prove you were threatened, you can use the weapon with a reasonable chance of no retribution. You are taught to call 911 and advise them that you are being menaced and then say in a very loud voice, "I am legally carrying a weapon and I fear for my life." You should sound very serious and frightened. Keep the phone open as you pull the trigger. This may sound corny but when you go to court, that 911 call will greatly aid your defense. A person with a gun who is verbally abusing you, might make you fear for your life. In my case, it would definitely make me go for my phone. Oh, one other thing, I was also taught to not stop shooting until the assailant is dead. Just sayin.

All this over a pound and a half rabbit, Just doesn't seem to make sense when you look at in the light of retrospect.

[bucks better beagles]

Bunnyblaster: a man walking towards you with a gun and a bad mouth is a dangerous situation. By "diffuse", I simply meant that Joeyman could have walked away or been a bit more polite in his approach. For a fellow who kills hundreds of rabbits, this couldn't have been that big a deal other than a personal affront to his ego.

[gwyoung]

bunnyblaster, just trying to make what you said make sense to me. Perhaps the lack is on my part. but here is what I think you are saying. You say fight or flee were his two options. Neither was necessary. He had a ton of options all good , and only one bad option. You say you agree with what he has done and then go on to say he lived this time but perhaps the next time he won't. That tells me you thing he has a fifty percent chance of surviving an ordeal concerning a rabbit, and then you say you agree with taking such a chance, unbelieveable! Don't want a problem ,tell me to go to hell if you want. But I just can't believe that you would advocate taking a fifty percent chance on dying over a rabbit.

[Joeyman]

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[Joeyman]

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[Casey Harner]

Amazingly enuff i have watched several pages of what people would do over a rabbit being shot. hmm if it boils people that bad then sure as hell dont go to evansville and hunt or your fillings will be shattered very quickly.