Is finishing a dog to akc fc still a big acomplishment

[lsw7030]

swinging dogs in akc

[Ron Conroe]

if you don't like akc or midwest, then don't run it or bad mouth it, just stick to the minor league like arha or ukc. i heard they were so easy to finish a dog there, you could win it with a fiest. if you dont think them dogs do not swing, cheat to get to the front, then you are kennel blind. getcha some.

[South Woods kennel]

Amen Ron, I'm right with ya on that one

[jdmart]

I think part of the problem I see with several of these comments are people don't know the rules or don't understand scoring or have misconstrued comments by a judge. Attend an AKC judging seminar!

[Ridge View]

As a matter of fact Jeff there is an AKC Judging Seminar taking place at Coshocton County Beagle Club. They are having an AKC Spo License trial November 26th and 27th.

Pony up Boys go and see if you can learn anything! Contact Dan Spalding for details! Hope some of you attend please!

Just a reminder AKC JUDGING SEMINAR at Coshocton County Beagle Club! ATTEND!

[toldyouso]

Ron relax no one is downing the only organization that u have every belonged to. And u say dont come or bad mouth the midwest and then you turn around and call arha and ukc minor league. come on man RELAX.

[Ron Conroe]

just trying to get under your skin frank... LOL is it working.

[toldyouso]

I am trying to turn over a new leaf and staying relaxed. But i do agree with alot of what has been said this is why i quit running AKC Midwest I just donot run the kind of dog that the rules r looking for. You know Ron I have run under every set of rules that have been invented for these dogs and none r perfect and none r bad. I think what we all need to start doing is supporting each other and realize if you run a beagle dog you cant be half bad.

[Ron Conroe]

i agree frank, to each their own. i was making a joke, but i forgot you can not do that on here, to many serious beaglers on here. really nothing wrong with any formats. if thats what you like run it. the thing is they are beagles their is not a perfect one out there, so run what you like.

[Bev]

It's been an interesting thread. The overall impression I'm getting is that to some, fast = rough. I've got to disagree. Brains, nose, and desire (with speed on the line) is a beautiful thing to watch. I know some have seen this clip, but it is possible to have a fairly clean fast dog. These dogs are running full bore on a hare that takes a 90 on the trail and darts back another 90 into the woods in front of my feet. The lead dog doesn't overrun 3 feet, the second dog goes thru, but the 3rd dog (littermate to the first) turns the line, too. Both of them also turn back into the woods - one in front of my feet and one behind my feet.

How would the judges score this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgw2QYMkQqA

These dogs are 50-50 hare/cottontail breeding.

[BCBeagles]

You cannot really call that anything, but IMPRESSIVE if you run hounds no matter what the speed. Those dogs were full tilt rolling and snapped right back to point of loss and gone again. IMO you call it track power no matter the format it is found in!!

[Mapel Valley Kennels LLC.]

Cool post but the bottom line with me is this i have seen a handfull that did it and made me like it.Abshires Abby and Lilly of Donals were 2 Of them also Lewis Longs Bitch Dasey was quite the accounter of a rabbit. Once again finish one then speak about your grieve, its hard unless your aware of something i aint.Good luck ps Jada of musics was also a bad bitch,Just saying not arguing

[drifter22no1]

It's been an interesting thread. The overall impression I'm getting is that to some, fast = rough.

I've never felt fast = rough, at all

in my opinion, rough is rough at any speed, period

usually what causes a normally fast smooth dog to get rough is pressure from pack mates and the smooth dogs competitive nature

I've seen plenty of fast smooth dogs, but what I was refering to was fast dogs that may be smooth alone but in a trial atmosphere get rough, i.e. reaching, swinging, running off the end tounging, running outside tounging, etc.

as far as the video it looked to me like the lead dog went much farther than any three feet over the end and so did the second dog through I couldnt really tell if it was the third dog through that actually turned the rabbit the second turn off the path or if one of the first two came back and took it out the right way. But I did see two dogs swing back in from the left side once the second turn was made where the first two over ran it. Camera work wasn't good enough for me to see what was going on.

I guess it depends on what you mind and don't mind for your personal use.

But as far as AKC goes there are clear guidelines to go by and I think that is what this thread is about, not what you are personally willing to put up with.

Keep in mind this video shows the rabbit line, judges dont get the luxury of seeing much of the actual rabbit unless it is on a jump.

Several years ago a friend and myself went to a derby trial in Jackson, OH and watched the big dogs run. We took a position up on the side of a hill where we could look down into the bottom and see not only the rabbit but the dog work as well. there were two ponds in this bottom with a dike or two track between them and we watched the rabbit come out of the hollar and run around the first pond and take the dike between the two ponds and run straight away to our right and back around the hill above us. When the dogs came through the entire pack ran the rabbit around the pond and took the dike the way the rabbit did but when they cleared the pond the lead dog turned left and went below us and around to our left but the second dog in the pack went straight on the actual line and ran the rabbit past us on our right like the rabbit did (the rest of the pack went with the wrong dog). the pack cut back in with the dog on top of the hill and made it appear as though he was outside and pulled back to the pack. Needless to say the judges picked up the only dog that was running the rabbit.

I did not and still don't fault the judges for the mistake, they went with the majority. The problem was they did not see the line so they had no idea what the rabbit actually did and the pack never quit barking so it sure looked like the single dog was dead wrong and actually he was the only dog that was dead right.

This is the case in most trial situations, the judges spend the majority of their time chasing the dogs seldom seeing the rabbit that is in front. They seldom see what dog is causing the breakdowns they just arrive in time to watch the cleanup, if their lucky enough to see that even.

Since the first trial I ever judged I have always believed the biggest flaw in the AKC system is having only two judges in the field. I have told my buddy from day one that it would be much better to have four judges, and instead of chasing dogs most of the time spend more time cutting them off to see rabbit and dog work. Quadrin the field off and get into position like you are hunting and trying to kill the rabbit, when the rabbit comes through if it isnt going to make a turn then clap your hands and make it turn then watch the dogs come through and follow them identifying and scoring the dogs that did the work according to AKC standards and pick up the problems. I know that all field trial sec. will tell you that it is hard enough getting two judges let alone four. But if it was done right guys that cant run all day and try to keep up with dogs could judge which would deepen and widen the judging pool imo.

I have always wondered why we chase the dogs most of the time, I mean, there is no way that anyone I have ever seen judge can run with a pack of big males on a good day. They spend all their time just trying to catch up just to get to see some of the check work at best in many cases (of course there are always exceptions like days the dogs cant keep one going long enough to drive it to any extent).

But this is just my opinion based on what I have witnessed as an observer without a dog in the trial, a judge, and a owner handler.

In my opinion Is finishing a dog in AKC still and accomplishment? Yes

but I think the midwest better be careful what types of dogs are completing that accomplishment or it will not be so admirable in the future.

[Bev]

as far as the video it looked to me like the lead dog went much farther than any three feet over the end and so did the second dog through I couldnt really tell if it was the third dog through that actually turned the rabbit the second turn off the path or if one of the first two came back and took it out the right way. But I did see two dogs swing back in from the left side once the second turn was made where the first two over ran it. Camera work wasn't good enough for me to see what was going on.

I guess it depends on what you mind and don't mind for your personal use.

Wow, drifter! Either you're hard to please or I have to get better at judging distances. Note the stump in the middle of the path. And considering the raw speed at which those dogs were running, exactly how "much farther" than 3 feet did the lead dog go before turning on the line?





I was standing next to a man-made bench - some timbers nailed to two trees (where I had been sitting). The bench is about 4 feet long. The hare cut back in just in front of the bench. When the dogs came through, they could either go in front of the bench or behind me and in. That's why I was swinging the camera around. They overran that turn by about 6 feet, the #3 dog actually came back, grabbed the line exactly where the hare turned in, and cut the pack by snapping back so fast. All that said, within 9 seconds of appearing, the pack was right back together on the line of the second turn. None of them could have overrun too far in 4.5 seconds per turn, lol.

There really was no check if a check means even a momentary loss. They weren't at risk of losing an animal they were exactly 7 seconds behind. The hare was lucky it wasn't caught.

I'll put up with that.

But on topic, I think a FC title is a huge accomplishment.

[drifter22no1]

as far as the video it looked to me like the lead dog went much farther than any three feet over the end and so did the second dog through I couldnt really tell if it was the third dog through that actually turned the rabbit the second turn off the path or if one of the first two came back and took it out the right way. But I did see two dogs swing back in from the left side once the second turn was made where the first two over ran it. Camera work wasn't good enough for me to see what was going on.

I guess it depends on what you mind and don't mind for your personal use.

Wow, drifter! Either you're hard to please or I have to get better at judging distances. Note the stump in the middle of the path. And considering the raw speed at which those dogs were running, exactly how "much farther" than 3 feet did the lead dog go before turning on the line?





I was standing next to a man-made bench - some timbers nailed to two trees (where I had been sitting). The bench is about 4 feet long. The hare cut back in just in front of the bench. When the dogs came through, they could either go in front of the bench or behind me and in. That's why I was swinging the camera around. They overran that turn by about 6 feet, the #3 dog actually came back, grabbed the line exactly where the hare turned in, and cut the pack by snapping back so fast. All that said, within 9 seconds of appearing, the pack was right back together on the line of the second turn. None of them could have overrun too far in 4.5 seconds per turn, lol.

There really was no check if a check means even a momentary loss. They weren't at risk of losing an animal they were exactly 7 seconds behind. The hare was lucky it wasn't caught.

I'll put up with that.

But on topic, I think a FC title is a huge accomplishment.

Bev,
I never said anything about how far they over ran the turn getting on the path I said "the second turn off the path"

I never commented about the first turn onto the path, I am talking about the turn made off the path back into the brush.