Is finishing a dog to akc fc still a big acomplishment

[BG BEAGLER]

Earl that's what I like about U.....pure honesty....your dogs were a little rougher than u like but they still finished....that's all I wanted to hear....nice poem

[jdmart]

Earl I agree that if they are too rough to keep a rabbit going they need to go! Good post!

[old blood beagles]

Earl, I am going to print this poem and take it to the next trial that I attend.

A masterpiece by the man EARL

[Aaron Bartlett]

Earl,Jon told me Jamie was the talker but after reading your poem I don't know.

Jon told you right but I can promise ya one thing some days its a neck to neck race!


Earl,
Not to bad of a poem for a half time teacher from KY! You ever gonna get that house done so you can start picking up some of them rough shi* eaters?

[eddywilliams]

If you got 6 or 7 down and they are all skirting swinging whatever put em all in the truck then

[Earl Rice]

Been in house about 3-4 months. Actually had little time to judge few trials this fall. Now it's time for my my son and I to kill some rabbits. Hopefully his ball playing will allow us enough time to hunt .

[wildcatfan0309]

said i was done posting but
earl that was a good poem
your a poet and dont know it

i said before that i may hit a few trials depending on the judges
well earl will be one of the judges at the trials i decide to go to
either him or a couple other guys
earl does a great job!!!!!

[CAP]

If you got 6 or 7 down and they are all skirting swinging whatever put em all in the truck then

If according to AKC rules, you pick up 1-2 of the faultiest hounds at a time, and the "skirting swinging whatever" continues all the way to the last hound, ABSOLUTELY. Next Pack

[toldyouso]

Thanks Earl LOL But yes you r right i do run a very rough hound. Have placed several hounds and even won a time or two never finished a AKC champion and probley will never I like what i like and I took No offense to what you said. I do agree with Matt though I have also seen your hounds go and they too r on the rough side. You have always been a guy that had a reputation of judging one way and running a completely different style hound. I judge want i run thats just me I do not think was is any more right then the other. Only rule that i see that needs to be removed from the AKC rule book is accomplishment over style. This was always my agruement. If you have a hound with 10 good marks and 5 bad marks and a hound with no score good or bad why is the hound that never scored one way or another left on the ground and the other is picked up. I will never understand that EVERY. Ha good to here from you Earl class act in my book.

[old blood beagles]

Just wondering about the above post. Did the hound that had 10 good marks and 5 bad create the bad? If you have a clean running line control hound that might not have picked up a couple of checks but did not create a single mistake, why would you pick him or her up.

[toldyouso]

Because they r suppose to contribute to the pack

[T LEE]

Because they r suppose to contribute to the pack

Amen!!! , if they have no score over their packmates .....I sure wouldn't want to advance it.

Acomplishment over Style every time for me.

[Bobby Vest]

Hard to make a mistake if all you do is follow the other dogs.

[toldyouso]

Thanks T lee this is what alot people miss on the whole conversation. Yes if a dog has 10 mistakes and only 5 good marks get rid of him but no marks either way on a dog he should never be called back. And what ever happened to only leaving a couple dogs down and getting rid of the rest now we only pick up two dogs and leave 5 dogs down doesnt make sense to me. If you r not going to use my dog put him in the truck dont make me hang out all day.Is there not something in the rule book that says no dog is to be picked up until they have pursued game for 30 minutes. Just asking cant remember.

[Pine Lakes]

I agree with much of what's been said here. Yes there's more rougher dogs placing today. Nevertheless that doesn't mean there weren't rough dogs in the beginning, in the middle, or won't be any in the future. It's just that seems percentage wise and number wise there's more today than there was in the past. In essence you're getting beat by quantity not quality. Yes there's some good dogs out there placing and winning. However for the each one that's good there's 5 that's rougher than a cob. Some say they're GREAT ones placing and winning. Well I figure if they were so great your buddies wouldn't have to brag on them so much; the dog's accomplishments would speak for themselves. Seems several guys in the Midwest wish to say this and that about dogs from more "conservative" federations. A few of you may fall over if you knew a few of the field champions in your bloodlines finished for their title in those areas that you're criticizing.

Furthermore liking cleaner closer line running hounds didn't lead to the state brace format is in. But instead being obsessed with a dog making a mistake. Then again I wasn't running brace in the 70's so I guess I should keep my mouth shut and not comment on brace dogs. I figure if a dog isn't making a mistake then it's not trying hard enough to please me. However with that being stated, there's a limit and a point of repetition at where that mistake becomes a fault. And that fault warrants elimination from the pack or furthermore being ultimately culled by it's owner. I agree brace format today is unfit to hunt over, but where do you think the other end of the spectrum is headed? More and more you hear folks questioning whether this FC or that FC could run and jump a rabbit by themselves! I THINK AKC COULD LEARN A LOT FROM ARHA PROGRESSIVE PACK AND UKC PERFORMANCE PACK IN REQUIRING A CHAMPION TO BE ABLE TO DO IT BY THEMSELVES BEFORE A DOG ACHIEVES ITS TITLE. Some of you are probably saying, wow the sky is falling chicken little... laugh if you choose, ignore if you wish, and you'll end up in the same state brace is!

Training judges isn't going to solve anything, when the person training them isn't following the rules strict enough or has a philosophy of judging them the way they run opposed to JUDGING THEM THE WAY THEY SHOULD BE RUNNING. I'll admit I'm not a fan of all-age trials. However years ago there was a lot more All-Age trials and seems you had to cut your teeth in them as well as Derby trials before you got asked to judge licensed trials. These days I think many guys are being picked to judge just because they can run fast or finished a few dogs and suddenly get their licenses. For many of you that are criticizing some of the older judges that may not get around as good as a young judge, that older guy will see more on one pass than some of us younger guys in four! Furthermore ask a few of the newbies why they got their licenses and see what kind of answers you get. I'll kiss your behind if there's not four or five that tell you they got their licenses because someone told them that's the only way they were going to win or place their dogs. Makes you wonder right?

A few of you that complain on these boards and complain in the general public would have a lot stronger argument and your opinion mean more if you weren't running to the stud section or results and blowing up swinging, skirting, mouthy, etc. etc. dogs to be the next coming. Do y'all change your opinions just because it's your buddy's dog winning and placing?

And oh yeah it's the MIDWEST FEDERATION now not ASSOCIATION. :-)

But to answer the question in the post. NO it's not a big accomplishment to me, but yet I still trial because I want to compete and see what everyone else has. Just because my dog has a FC in front of it's name doesn't mean it's a better dog to me, but instead just to everyone else that's just breeding red to red.

"Negative" judging contributes just as many(or more) problems as scoring faulty hounds. That is precisely the reason for today's "brace hound". Being obsessed with a cleaner, line running hound, and removing the more aggressive, front end dog is the cause. The crooked legged, babbling, useless thing called a today's brace hound is the result. You would have to go back 6 or more generations to find simular lineage between the beagles that are run in the Mid-West and Brace dogs. In that time they were gundogs ran in a brace format pure and simple, not a totally different breed of dog. I'm not saying that the dog on the front is the best dog by simply being on the front, but rather the best dog running the rabbit correctly up front is the best dog. If that front dog is overrunning, swinging, and/or reaching its packmates should be busting it in his butt if they are worth anything at all. Until they do that they can stand behind him on the bench. Just so everyone understands my point of view.

I wish someone would give me an example of a dog that has finished in the Mid-West that could not run a rabbit by itself. I'm not going to sit here and say that I think every dog that has a title is deserving, but to say it can't run a rabbit seems a little overboard to me. I can't think of one example myself. It might not run a rabbit the way you or I would like, but that's a different story all together.

Dogs don't seem to be any rougher, faster, slower, or hunt any different then they did in the early 90's when I started. There has always been disparity in the style of dogs winning and placing. That is a fact due to different circumstances from conditions to judges to the dogs entered in that specific trial. The numbers entered in trials has decreased dramatically however, so the quantity over quality theory isn't accurate. It may be the result of more clubs and trials held, but that can be rebuted also. It is far from perfect, but it is the best we have and we should all strive to make it better.