BORDERLINE (WISCONSIN) August 27th-28th 2011 AKC LP

[BuschBound]

Thank you to everyone that came to our trial. Even thought numbers seemed to be down for some of the classes we still continued with some great running.We would really like to send a special thanks to all the folks that helped at our trial that were not club members. You folks are great people! Denny and Bryan, thank you for traveling all the way here to judge! Thanks to all the Judges. This crew did a fine job sorting out the dogs. Congrats to Joe Kuklenski on finishing another Field Champion - FC. Green Bay Remi. Congrats to all the placing dogs.Here are the Results-

13" dog- 15 Starters- Judges- Bryan Bush and Kevin Orr

1st- Green Bay Deano
Sire- FC. Adirondack Mountain Tiki
Dam- FC. Green Bay Tula
Owner- Joe Kuklenski
2nd-Cottontails Jackpot
Sire- FC. Knotty Pine Otis
Dam- FC. Tiger Lillie
Owner- Brad Lau
3rd- Halfway Creek Dario
Sire- FC. Halfway Creek Game Boy
Dam-Halfway Creek Dora
Owner- John Quigley
4th- Busch Bound Humdinger
Sire- FC. Candy's Humpty Dumpty
Dam- FC. Green Bay Big Booty Judy
Owner- Dave Martin
NBQ- Swampsing'n Whiplash
Sire-FC. Branko's Cougar Magnum
Dam- Swampsing'n Little Lyza
Owner- Dean Carli Jr. & Kathy Carli

13" Bitch- 18 Starters- Judges- Bryan Bush, Terry Pallin

1st- Whitney Creek Lola
Sire- FC. SR. Donald Butch
Dam- Whitney Creek Mattie
Owner- Butch Saari & Jerry Moren
2nd- Green Bay Remi ( New FC)
Sire-IFC. Green Bay Butkus
Dam- FC. Green Bay Blue Bay
Owner- Joe Kuklenski
3rd-Green Bay Hail Mary
Sire- IFC. Green Bay Butkus
Dam-FC. Snow Run Molly Holly
Owner-Joe Kuklenski
4th-River Bottom Raven
Sire-FC. Glacier RIdge Renegade
Dam-FC. River Bottom Yukon
Owner-Dennis Thiesen
NBQ- Fieldstone China Doll
Sire-FC. Fieldstone Magoo
Dam-Swampbottom Little Dixie
Owner-Dan Harrington

15" Dog- 24 Starters- Judges- Denny Dugan, Brad Lau

1st-Henry's Hunter ll
Sire- IFC Green Bay Butkus
Dam- FC. Green Bay Blue Bay
Owner- Henry Bosman
2nd-Whitney Creek Brush Buster
SIre-NLPC FC. SR. Donald Butch
Dam-FC. Whitney Creek Casey
Owner- Butch Saari
3rd- Cedar Beck C Spot Run
Sire- Cedar Beck Blazer ll
Dam- Kinsey's Lucy of Snowshoe
Owner- Bob and Donna King
4th-Dago Valley Big Studd
SIre- IFC Green Bay Butkus
Dam-FC. Green Bay Blue Bay
Owner- Jermemy DeRosso
NBQ- Fieldstone Old Dutch
SIre- FC. Branko's Cougar Magnum
Dam- Fieldstone's Hot Pursuit
Owner Dean and Kathy Carli

15" Bitch- 21 Starters- Judges- Jack Maccani, Tom Olsen

1st- Tomasi's Deductible Molly May
Sire- FC. Branko's Amans Bugle Boy
Dam- FC. Klacking Creek Smoke
Owner- Jon Tomasi
2nd-Black River Sugar
SIre-JohnL's Ringer
Dam-Knotty Pine Ali
Owner- Jay Ruesch
3rd- Plover RIver Allie-Gator
Sire- FC. Stonyhills Gator
Dam- Cedar Run Little Bugsy
Owner- Dan Johnson
4th- Plover River Killer Bee
SIre- FC. Stonyhills Gator
Dam-Cedar Run Little Bugsy
Owner-Dan Johnson
NBQ- Natures Newborn Liza
SIre- FC. Candy's Little Tommy Tucker
Dam- FC. Nature's Newborn Moriha
Owner Terry and Patty Hannu

[brozbeagles]

Thanks for the results post Dave!!!! I luv to see the results when I don't make it to the trial....

Congratulations to all that placed and good luck to the 15" classes tomorrow....

[Darryl]

"numbers seemed to be down " haha I wonder why ..

[Roy Swafford]

Looking at the 13" male winners and Doc Watson got measured OUT. I think if I was going to do this I might not post pictures of the placing dogs.

[BG BEAGLER]

I'm just a poor dumb redneck from KY but y were the numbers down DARRYL

[BuschBound]

Looking at the 13" male winners and Doc Watson got measured OUT. I think if I was going to do this I might not post pictures of the placing dogs.

Everyone, here are the facts. I did not mean for this to be a question. All I was saying is that our numbers were down from previous years. We have a very good group of well aged beaglers that have been measuring dogs and running dogs long before most on this board have. This group of guys is as honest as the day is long. And we have them measure all four classes. I like to have the same four so there is some consistency throughout the weekend. This group of guys have been measuring for us for at least 5 years now. This is why I have selected them to measure. Now, we all know that measuring has always been an issue. I know because I read it on this board from time to time and it is a problem everywhere. These guys bring the dogs in, they get the bends out of the crouchers and measure on the top of the wither right where they are suppose too. Yes, there are some dogs that have never been measured out of a trial in their lives that have measured out with these guys but if the rulebook says over 13 is out, I can count on them to say “The dog is a eighth over or what ever it measures”. Now, I have heard some guys complain and say things like our club gives a Quarter inch. Is this right?? We have rules to follow and the last time I read the rules it states dogs under 13” will run in the 13” class. and dogs under 15” will run in the 15” class. Nowhere in the rulebook does it state give an eighth or a quarter inch or say “run’em on the day you bring them”. There is a reason for measuring. There have been dogs that have measured out a few times before and have gotten in at a later date. We have good honest guys that measure the dogs. We do not want to measure out any dogs but we are not going to lie and cheat for anyone just to get the dog in so he or she can run their dogs. I have heard both sides of the story as well. Guys complaining about the big dogs some clubs are letting in, So if that is the case they can continue to do so. All I know is that our measures get the dog under the measuring stand the best they can and place the bar on the withers and read the measurement correctly. Before the measuring is even completed the guy on the dogs head even ask the handler if he or she is O.K. with the stance before he slides the sheath over to get the measurement. This way the handler has every opportunity to walk his dog or whatever.
Now, Someone mentioned FC. Branko’s Doc Watson. Doc is a tremendously talented 13” male. I personally went over and looked at this dog with Denny Dugan and we talked about him a bit. He stood him up on a picnic table and told me that he had never ever measured out before. I can see how that is possible. He looks like a 13” male too me. Do I think he is a borderline 13” Yes. I have had a few borderline dogs and I go to trials with the thought of “ If I run a borderline dog I’m always prepared to get measured out”. It happens. I know Denny and the Branko’s were not very happy with this and I am very sorry! But the stand does not lie. He may never measure out again I hope this is the case. Denny and the Branko’s are very well respected folks on our circuit and I hope they return. I have a young male that I’ve measured numerous times he is the dog that got 4th. I have never had him go bigger than 12 7/8. Dinger normally measures from 12 ½ to 12 ¾” This day he measured 13 on the head. I was shocked. But, I am prepared for him to meaure out as well. Measuring will always be an Issue and it is too bad the ones that follow the rules take most of the blame.
I normally don’t like to drop names but someone else had mention Doc. But just to make everyone else aware Denny and Branko’s dogs were not the only ones measured out this day. We had 5 dogs measure out in the 13” male class as well as a few others in the other classes. I think the 15” bitch class was the only class that did not measure any out. I’ve had many dogs measure out before. Some were a surprise some not so. But, If you go to a trial with one that is close be prepared to be measured out. There is no measuring seminar needed for our measures they do a fantastic job!! It’s just too bad that some of these other clubs are so worried about making the $$buck$$ or worried about whos feelings they may hurt or what big named beagler might talk bad about them, they just let dogs slide through. They can do whatever they’d like. I’m sure every Large Pack Club has discussed this measuring issue. We have had talks about just having the judges do the measuring. This way the heat is off of our members. These 4 guys don’t need the B.S. anyways.

Remember Roy, We've seen a lot of pictures of 13 males classes and yes most of them look big. I would put money on it that when these guys measured these dogs and read the measurement the staff said 13" or under. Can a measurers make mistakes? sure. So can the judges in the woods. Beagling is not a perfect sport but we all have to try to enjoy it no matter what the out come is.

[South Woods kennel]

Well put dave i feel the same way

[Aaron Bartlett]

I have a young male that I’ve measured numerous times he is the dog that got 4th. I have never had him go bigger than 12 7/8. Dinger normally measures from 12 ½ to 12 ¾” This day he measured 13 on the head. I was shocked.

Dave,
I dont have a dog in this fight and I agree with alot of what you said about going by the rules but if your dog measured "13" on the head" and its clear that Joe K's. dog is shorter than yours.....What the hell did the others that placed measure???? Its pretty clear that the others are all taller than yours. JMO!

[harerunner92]

well put dave I agree with u the staff doent lie. im pretty sure when they measured at the trial they showed the owners what the staff said so i do not see how there can be any complaining to do. the owners had the opportunity to walk their dog if they did not like the stance

[Darryl]

Toss another hound at you that got measured out FTCH Branko's MTM ... Never been measure out before . Seems Like a Pattern.

[Roseland]

:

[Roy Swafford]

Dave thank you for your response and I also agree with a lot of what you had to say in your post. That being said I feel it hard to believe if Doc in your eyes is considered borderline that most of your placing dogs are not over. I realize measuring is no exact science but doc and MTM are measured out and those run seems odd. What's done is done and the last thing Denny wants is internet haggling over Doc. Thanks again hope to meet you sometime and we can agree to disagree some more lol Take Care Roy

[BuschBound]

Guys, every picture you look at and ever stance a measurer puts a dog in may not be the same each time. As far as the measuring goes the guys positioning the hound have the most improtant job. but it always seems its the guy who reads the measurment that always gets the heat!.. Take a look at this link. http://www.northernmihare.com/borderline.html It is a link to the placing dogs of this event and you will see the size difference has changed with each dog. It is from a different camera and a different angle. Scroll down towards the bottom and you will see the pics from this trial.. Don't judge a dogs size by a picture. Some dogs stand naturally, some may need help, some just lay there.. Measurer have it hard enough with trying to do thier jobs correctly, They don't need the drama. 5 dogs measured out of this class that I can think of. one being a dog that just is chasing points and the other was a littermate to my male and one that I can't remember right now. So the only pattern here is Darryl is that 5 dogs measured out in the little males.. 4 that reside in the States and 1 from Canada. Again, Every handler got to see the measurement afterwards if they choose too. The guy on the head of the dog turns the sheath so the handler can read it themselves. Again this happens after he asked if the handler was O.K. with the stance. They are given every chance to pull the dog out and even take him for a walk to relax the dog if the handler selects too. Thank you all for participating in this discussion. Oh, each and everyone of of these dogs still had the opportunity to still participate in the event. Each handler chose not to run the next day.

[Dan Johnson]

"numbers seemed to be down " haha I wonder why ..

WOW! How old are you, 5!

[South Woods kennel]

Hahahaha Dan