Controversial Post number 3

[Guest]

Alot of peaple I run with it seems the only time there dogs bark is when the dogs are looking at it.Maybe they think my dogs are mouthy ,who knows.

[MasonsBeagles]

I think it is the fact that alot of people are not breeding the nose to compliment the foot speed. SPEED SPEED SPEED without considering the nose. Being critical of my hounds I have come to the conclusion over the last two years that speed is nice only if they can handle it. I just want one that does it right.

[KanesIrish]

when I first started trialing, running, and hunting on my own I had two bitches, both had exceptional noses and both had extra mouth in the check area. I have since retired the both of them, and I had a lot of fun with them. Now I have two young males that don't bark enough...and I don't know which is more aggrivating. I'm not one to cull because of 1 fault, but these two males have a lot of talent running the rabbit but could claim a little quicker. Hopefully with a little work they will come out of it, one has started to and the other seems like he is just developing it.

Steve C. is right I do have a bitch that is half cottontail, half hare bred out of two of the biggest kennels in the country. She gears down to run cottontail and gears up to run hare. When I finished her in LPH she was geared down to run to run cottontails and cleaned the pack from behind.

She, Chris, is one of those field trial hounds that can run a 20 second old line when other dogs can't, handle, and she doesn't run deer...I can't wait to gun her this year. Maybe if I have some extra time and some cash we can get together and run this winter.

[Steve C.]

Robbie, I just got a roll of film developed and there's a very "frameable" shot of you with your nice big white male and a very dead hare. Hoping to see you at one of the trials this fall so I can give it to you. Are you coming down to Sunrise this fall?

[sgc]

I like Greg Wells post. I've felt this way for a while now. I have a female I know has a good nose, but she won't get down & grub out a rabbit thats run down a hard dirt road. She'll cross back & forth, up one side & down the other until she might find the rabbit in the thickets, but she won't walk that road. I know of another dog that I've seen slowly walk that line down the road as pretty as can be; but that same dog also tongues pretty much non-stop 80% of the time she's off of the leash. She cold trails & I believe backtracks and its been more than once I've wished she'd depart this particular running grounds; especially when I've had young dogs out there. (I quess this topic just hit a nerve, today).

[KanesIrish]

Steve,
I won't be going to Sunrise because I'm judging Java Village's disimilar gundog brace trial and then I have a retirement party to go to. Hang on to it and I'll get it from you soon. I had figured I would have seen you at Southern Maine. You missed some good bulldog running up there.

[Steve C.]

Rob, I never miss Fundy and Fundy runs against So. Maine both spring and fall. I judged little bitches there last weekend and we had terrific running, even in the pouring rain. Something I've been thinking about that ties in with the "controversy" theme of this thread- every year I hear more and more complaining about judging in the states; both LP and SPO. Rarely do I hear any of this when I go to the Maritimes. After a lot of thought about this, I've come to the conclusion that the reason this exists is due to lack of game and poor cover. I would say that half the trials I attend in New England suffer from lack of game and lousy running. Hare are usually pen raised and half tame. In the end, with poor running, judges are forced into making decisions that are easy to second-guess. Almost every time I've judged or run in the Maritimes, the running is good to exceptional. Plenty of game and better conditions for the dogs. Judging is simple when the dogs run well; and when the the hounds absolutely hum round and round for the last two hours of the trial, it's pretty difficult to question the judges. With the availability of hare in doubt for the future in southern New England, this situation can only get worse. It's the same distance for me to travel to Massachusetts as Nova Scotia, or central Maine as New Brunswick. For me, the choices of where to go are obvious. I can get to any trial in the Maritimes with the exception of Newfoundland and Cape Breton as to travel to Thornton or even Claremont. I never worry about game supply when I head north and I know my hounds will get $15 worth of running, whether they place or not. I've given SPO an honest chance but have to say that I don't enjoy the format as much as LP. Probably not a popular opinion but it's been formed by about 100,000 miles driving to and from trials and running a lot of different hounds and formats. I feel that there's a lot less luck, and in the end, less controversy running LP. There, that ought to spark some furious typing!

[Boomer]

I don't think it's fair to take dogs who've worked in good scenting conditions all their lives and expect them to adjust immediately to poor scenting conditions. It's not a breeding issue, it's a habit issue. It takes a different approach, the "unlearning" of some old habits, and the learning of some new habits. It takes some time to adjust to the new challenge.

[KanesIrish]

Steve,
I understand what you are saying.

Southern Maine put on an excellent trial, hardly had to walk for game and we saw plenty of strays. I traveled from New Scotland(who also put on a great trial) thinking that I would see nothing like the running I saw in New York, but the running was even better.

I had the chance to see an awesome male, Preacher Brook Charlie (IFC Country Boy Runner x FC Lonesome Creek Hare Razor), run at New Scotland, he ran fast with control on cottontails and it felt like we ran that winners pack in every corner of that 120 acre grounds. And then watched four packs at Southern Maine rip the woods apart. We only dropped one hare. It was a good week for me ,at least, in SPO.

[A&S]

I have only been running trails (lp) for less than a year, but have had beagles since childhood. We always looked for and had dogs with good noses. I took the same dogs to these trails and they got minus for barking and the judge would say handle your dogs. The sad part is 75% of the time the dogs would jump the rabbit when he the judge opened his mouth the handlers would say they're a little over the edge as far as when to open.. So I guess what im saying is that the nose is being breed out because the handlers dont want to take minus for thier dogs giving mouth before the rabbit is out of its setup. I know everyone says that they are gun hunters first and trailers 2nd if this is true why do handlers get mad if there dogs open a little early and recieve minus at these hunts.

[kentucky]

put some shorts blood and some keen cuuter casey in your dogs and you will have all the nose you need anywhere

[Joe West]

It's impossible to lump all trials together and say that trials as a whole are doing anything. Some are and some aren't. Some like a hound with a touch of extra mouth and some don't. Some require a hound with a great scenting ability and some don't. They are not all on the same page.

[KanesIrish]

Kentucky,
the bitch I finished this Spring is by FC Greenbrier Maravic's Simba and Short's PTO. PTO was a littermate sister to FC Short's Pro. She is the total package, speed, check work, control, handles, doesn't run deer. But as far as nose goes, my two bitches out of Nr. IFC Kane's Irish Beach Bum and Excelsior Shiny Nickel(Armando's Northern Tracker) can out check her any day, when shes not running away from them.

I run her a lot with my Kane's Irish Midnight Cowboy who is by FC Sweet Water Luke and Kane's Irish Midnight(Northway Driver). They both show the same nose, he might even dig a little bit longer at a long check then she will.

I wouldn't say put some Short's blood in your kennel if you want nose, I would say put some Short's blood in your kennel if you want more control.