How Important is close check work?

[Lance]

So which is it...a dog that will reach some....or a high flying swinger....the way I see it...there is a difference?

Well, I guess if trophy's or a sheet of paper is what you are after have at it. I would hate to say that my dog couldn't circle a rabbit if the conditions weren't just right.

When I do go to trials, it's PP. I breed for dogs that run to catch but still run as much of the line as possible. I want dogs that run the track whether they are in the front or back, dogs that DO NOT race to the front, dogs that know where the end of the line is, snap back to point of loss and work from there. If they cant find it, then reach some. If they cant find it on the reach, come back to point of loss and start over. (I have a dog that on numerous occasions when you think the track is gone...after all dogs have reached and found nothing..she will come back to original check area and walk it out)...and most importantly...dogs that adjust to the scenting conditions....They can fly when scenting is head high and grub it when scenting is bad.

They might not fit perfectly into any format...but I don't feed em' to fit a format...I feed em because that I what I think a rabbit hound should be!!!!

[T LEE]

(B) This dog sure works a tight check. Gets out checked by rougher style dogs and has little to No chance of winning in the trials I enter. Runs a smoother rabbit (with no pressure on it) than dog "A" will.

With no pressure on it??? The dogs that i see winning trials are the dogs that can run accurately under the pressure of their pack mates without getting raddled. The dogs that continue to work a close check,and run a accurate line within the pressure of the pack are the dogs that i see winning trials.

I'll explain. Many dogs tend to run different when pushed or pressured. The same dog that runs smooth at home and running only with its packmates (same speed and bloodline), may become bug eyed and unglued when another dog puts pressure on it. I've seen many guys enter a dog at a trial that just won’t pack. At home they may be a different dog. Trials can bring out the best and even worst in some dogs. When I hear “close check work , clean, works a check from the inside out.” I wonder how some of these same dogs would run when the pressure of a hard hitting ,snatch and grab dog is down with them. I really don’t care if a dog picks the check up 1 inch or 50 yards from the point of loss, as long as it picks it up First.

[Casey Harner]

So which is it...a dog that will reach some....or a high flying swinger....the way I see it...there is a difference?

Well, I guess if trophy's or a sheet of paper is what you are after have at it. I would hate to say that my dog couldn't circle a rabbit if the conditions weren't just right.

When I do go to trials, it's PP. I breed for dogs that run to catch but still run as much of the line as possible. I want dogs that run the track whether they are in the front or back, dogs that DO NOT race to the front, dogs that know where the end of the line is, snap back to point of loss and work from there. If they cant find it, then reach some. If they cant find it on the reach, come back to point of loss and start over. (I have a dog that on numerous occasions when you think the track is gone...after all dogs have reached and found nothing..she will come back to original check area and walk it out)...and most importantly...dogs that adjust to the scenting conditions....They can fly when scenting is head high and grub it when scenting is bad.

They might not fit perfectly into any format...but I don't feed em' to fit a format...I feed em because that I what I think a rabbit hound should be!!!!

I bet the dog your describing is out of Glomski's Skipper!!!

[hounddog]

So which is it...a dog that will reach some....or a high flying swinger....the way I see it...there is a difference?

Well, I guess if trophy's or a sheet of paper is what you are after have at it. I would hate to say that my dog couldn't circle a rabbit if the conditions weren't just right.

When I do go to trials, it's PP. I breed for dogs that run to catch but still run as much of the line as possible. I want dogs that run the track whether they are in the front or back, dogs that DO NOT race to the front, dogs that know where the end of the line is, snap back to point of loss and work from there. If they cant find it, then reach some. If they cant find it on the reach, come back to point of loss and start over. (I have a dog that on numerous occasions when you think the track is gone...after all dogs have reached and found nothing..she will come back to original check area and walk it out)...and most importantly...dogs that adjust to the scenting conditions....They can fly when scenting is head high and grub it when scenting is bad.

They might not fit perfectly into any format...but I don't feed em' to fit a format...I feed em because that I what I think a rabbit hound should be!!!!

So Lance, are you saying that your hounds CAN circle every rabbit they jump reguardless of the conditions? If that's the case, you have probably kill every rabbit in your hunting spots.
I run Little pack also and all my hounds can circle a rabbit, but not on certain days. Win some, lose some.
IMO a hound that goes backwards as in trying to find the point of loss, is wasting time going backwards instead of reaching forward for the track. Again, I like a hound that brings a rabbit to the gun as fast as it can, reguardless of form or style.
I think your last sentence is what what we all think.

hounddog
Jim Umbarger

[DINGUS MAN]

(B) This dog sure works a tight check. Gets out checked by rougher style dogs and has little to No chance of winning in the trials I enter. Runs a smoother rabbit (with no pressure on it) than dog "A" will.

With no pressure on it??? The dogs that i see winning trials are the dogs that can run accurately under the pressure of their pack mates without getting raddled. The dogs that continue to work a close check,and run a accurate line within the pressure of the pack are the dogs that i see winning trials.

I'll explain. Many dogs tend to run different when pushed or pressured. The same dog that runs smooth at home and running only with its packmates (same speed and bloodline), may become bug eyed and unglued when another dog puts pressure on it. I've seen many guys enter a dog at a trial that just won’t pack. At home they may be a different dog. Trials can bring out the best and even worst in some dogs. When I hear “close check work , clean, works a check from the inside out.” I wonder how some of these same dogs would run when the pressure of a hard hitting ,snatch and grab dog is down with them. I really don’t care if a dog picks the check up 1 inch or 50 yards from the point of loss, as long as it picks it up First.

I dont quiet understand this. My line of dogs (dingus) in years past have placed and won in spo, ubgf, pp and lp and also championed out and they was the same dogs. So I dont think your comment applies to all hounds because some close check dogs get the job done in most anything you put them in. IMO if they have "IT" they have IT and if they dont they just dont. My dogs or line in the past has done well because they are first rabbit dogs. I dont understand a blanket coverage statement. If a dog need 50 yards to pick up a scent that dog or dogs needs more nose power and line control.

[mike crabtree]

I like both kinds as long as they do something to get there part of the race.

[T LEE]

DINGUS man, you may have dogs that are the exception to the rule. If a poll was taken of the top 10 dogs to place at the Little Pack World hunt this year, I don't think many would have wins in Progressive Pack and UBGF. I've been told Mid-West SPO runs a similar dog as Litlle Pack (speed wise). The AKC SPO trails here in NC are the speed of you and I at a fast Walk. If they "reach" outside and area as big as a truck hood, they are picked up. We don't get to see many UBGF dogs do well in our Little Pack trials here.

[Lance]

So Lance, are you saying that your hounds CAN circle every rabbit they jump reguardless of the conditions? If that's the case, you have probably kill every rabbit in your hunting spots.
I run Little pack also and all my hounds can circle a rabbit, but not on certain days. Win some, lose some.
IMO a hound that goes backwards as in trying to find the point of loss, is wasting time going backwards instead of reaching forward for the track. Again, I like a hound that brings a rabbit to the gun as fast as it can, reguardless of form or style.
I think your last sentence is what what we all think.

hounddog
Jim Umbarger

They may not circle every rabbit, but I guarantee you if they lost it....it's not by their own mistakes!!!!

Jim...are all checks recovered in a forward direction? If a rabbit doubles back then shoots out to the left or right...I guess your dog will never find it lol.....Seriously though... I know what you mean by working forward, but the end of the line is the end of the line...the shortest route back the the track is straight back....anything else is wasted motion....If your dog gambles to the left when he should have gambled to the right...chances are my dog will have the track and going when your dog is out in left field wondering where the rabbit went

[PREACHERS KENNEL]

I like a dog to work from the inside out snap back to the point of loss but dont stay and blow the woods down but will start circling small then bigger until it picks the check up. I lke a dog with a little gamble but for the most part when you get to gamblin it gets to be excessive and when scentin is good these type dogs can look good but if scentin is picky they will get there clock cleaned by a tight check dog JMO
Donald

PERFECTLY DESCRIBED FOR ME .

[hard on a check]

(B) This dog sure works a tight check. Gets out checked by rougher style dogs and has little to No chance of winning in the trials I enter. Runs a smoother rabbit (with no pressure on it) than dog "A" will.

With no pressure on it??? The dogs that i see winning trials are the dogs that can run accurately under the pressure of their pack mates without getting rattled. The dogs that continue to work a close check,and run a accurate line within the pressure of the pack are the dogs that i see winning trials.

I'll explain. Many dogs tend to run different when pushed or pressured. The same dog that runs smooth at home and running only with its packmates (same speed and bloodline), may become bug eyed and unglued when another dog puts pressure on it. I've seen many guys enter a dog at a trial that just won’t pack. At home they may be a different dog. Trials can bring out the best and even worst in some dogs. When I hear “close check work , clean, works a check from the inside out.” I wonder how some of these same dogs would run when the pressure of a hard hitting ,snatch and grab dog is down with them. I really don’t care if a dog picks the check up 1 inch or 50 yards from the point of loss, as long as it picks it up First.

I mostly run akc midwest trials,and in my opinion these hounds hit hard coming out of a check,and they have plenty of foot,but they want them to do it with accuracy.Like i stated in my previous post - the dogs that i see winning are the dogs that work checks from the inside out,and run with accuracy under the pressure of their packmates without getting rattled,basically: SPEED with CONTROL.

[Cooz's Beagles]

My first beagle is the swingin, fast type, and sometimes he can get that rabbit going and FLY with it and it is really exciting... Until the rabbit starts messing around doing it's tricks, sometimes he'll figure it off- most times he runs around like a fool overunning tracks,making outrageous circles, didn't mind it until he started losing rabbits. Great search,good jump,awesome speed, awesome Branko bloodlines (grandson to alibaba) but worse line control and not much brains all passion.

So I switched to a more conservative type dogs the nine month old pp style pup I'm working with. She's only a pup yet but I'm hoping she has med upper speed so she isn't so slow but at a pace where she can control the line good. I may be getting a sister\cousin to her this summer and hoping they run smoothly together. So I'm more for the line control dogs but I like a good speed also. ;-)

Cooz's Beagles
Lone Pine Cooz's Nicci
Cooz's Just Snoopin Around

[NeilKimbrel7]

I guess I like a dog that's in the middle. I want them to hustle in the check, push the envelope, figure out the tracking and adjust. It doesn't matter what dogs you run with fast or slow they should pick up and run with anything and be there to turn the pack when they can and find the loss when they can't. In my experience in trialing med speed formats you can get out of the check as long as you're not good at it. You start scoring and your minused. What's it matter if you're gun hunting as long as they bring it back. Now I do like them to run a line as accurately as possible. I feel the extreme swingers can swap from rabbit to rabbit more than I care for. I want a dog that can solo a rabbit by itself.

[R.Ooten (RUFF)]

When the cast has a check it’s ALL the dogs with the loss. Not just the front dog, middle dog or the dog pulling up the rear. The area the check occurs for some unknown reason the dogs can’t seem to smell the track anymore. To stay close to the point of loss (where they could Not smell to start with) seems pointless.

JMO But in Little Pack everyone brings the same type of dogs to the hunts so that they will have a chance to win.
and like I said this is JMO and I don't want to start anything. But the reason is. The front dog over ran the track and
in most cases way over ran the track but he still gives mouth and even though the rest of the pack can't smell the track
they think the front dog still has the rabbit and they just hark to where he stands and they can serch that area untill the
cows come home and never find the rabbit. Their not even close to where the check really is. So thats why the area YOU
think the check occurs the dogs can't seem to smell the track anymore. their not even close to where the rabbit turned.
so if they find the actual check area or pick up the rabbit it just looks like they reached to find it. Like I said this JMO
and I know this isen't the only reason for this but it is most of the time

[NeilKimbrel7]

Ruff, what format do you trial? I've dabbled in arha lp, arha pp, ukc pp, ukc hb, and akc Midwest. All lp are not the same. There are good n bad in every format.

[T LEE]

When the cast has a check it’s ALL the dogs with the loss. Not just the front dog, middle dog or the dog pulling up the rear. The area the check occurs for some unknown reason the dogs can’t seem to smell the track anymore. To stay close to the point of loss (where they could Not smell to start with) seems pointless.

JMO But in Little Pack everyone brings the same type of dogs to the hunts so that they will have a chance to win.
and like I said this is JMO and I don't want to start anything. But the reason is. The front dog over ran the track and
in most cases way over ran the track but he still gives mouth and even though the rest of the pack can't smell the track
they think the front dog still has the rabbit and they just hark to where he stands and they can serch that area untill the
cows come home and never find the rabbit. Their not even close to where the check really is. So thats why the area YOU
think the check occurs the dogs can't seem to smell the track anymore. their not even close to where the rabbit turned.
so if they find the actual check area or pick up the rabbit it just looks like they reached to find it. Like I said this JMO
and I know this isen't the only reason for this but it is most of the time

I have also seen this happen before. The Little Pack trials here in NC have a mix in speeds anywhere from a 9 to a 5 in foot speed. Bloodlines entered from Branko, Patch ,Northway , and T-Rex to the other end of the spectrum of Robs Diamond , Tiny Bull and Shorts Pro.

Everyone seems to blame the front runner for any bobble in the race. I look at it this way……If the 2nd ,3rd ,4th or 5th dog in line would have turned ,there would not have been a check to start with. Are they running the rabbit or just running to try and stay with the front dog?

Bottom line is we all have checks, either while running at home or competition. Why condemn a dog that recovers the check first, regardless of style.

If some of these guys that claim to have dogs that can out check a pack and do it close and clean, then my hats off to them. That’s just Not what I see while judging trials or running with the 10 or 12 guys I run with.