Controversial post number 2

Joe West · Post by **Joe West** » Tue Aug 17, 2004 8:31 pm

Since the beagle is a breed whose purpose is to find game and then to pursue it until accounted for then bettering the breed would seem to be breeding hounds who are best suited for that purpose.

Big Dog · Post by **Big Dog** » Tue Aug 17, 2004 8:36 pm

To tnbeagleman - I hear what you are saying man, but I have to disagree with you on this one. Trash running has a lot to do with where a young dog is run(opportunity) In my area of NC you will find very few naturally trash proof dogs. Me and my kennel partner have about 14 dogs now and some of them are pretty solid dogs, but every one of them except one has had to be broken off deer. The one that hasn't tried deer is only 1 year old, so I wouldn't call him 100% just yet. I have seen naturally straight dogs bred and come up with deer runners, so personally I don't think not running trash is a trait that you can or should be trying to breed for. It is the least of my worries at my kennel, because I expect to have to break my dogs. A man that lives in an area with low deer densities is more apt to have naturally trash proof dogs, because of the lack of opportunity, it has nothing to do with the breeding. I like for mine to run trash so that I can go ahead and break them and get it over with, I hate having to wonder everytime that a dog opens if it is possibly a deer and that is the way I feel with the naturally trashproof ones. Just my two cents.

Big Dog

DRamey · Post by **DRamey** » Tue Aug 17, 2004 10:24 pm

Eric Sampson got to the heart of what beagling is and went straight back to its roots. When you are listening to hound music with your young'uns it doesn't matter if you are bettering the breed or not, just that you are bettering YOUR offspring. Never lose sight of which is more important to better and it'll all fall into place. I still stand by what I said earlier as well and Perkins sort of just reworded it, that we are bettering our own bloodilnes to suit us and there will never be a perfect all-around hound until we all are clones with the exact same likes, dislikes and physical abilities. For example, Malachi likes to hunt wide when he is around mouthy hounds. He gets away from them. I have to rein him in from hunting wide if he's been up for a while also. He wouldn't be for someone who wants to stand in the road or sits on the tailgate and lets them hunt until he's had a run or two.

Lynn Perkins · Post by **Lynn Perkins** » Wed Aug 18, 2004 4:46 am

Bigdog i agree but yet disgree coming from an area that has deer but small population,i see it harder to keep the young dogs clean for lack of opportunity to see offgame.I feel dogs get use to deer if exsposed to them regular and if corrected will learn the do runs and the don't runs quicker.Yet i can see your point to,makes the work a lot more time consuming but as the young hound ages with plenty of exsposure and correcting makes him/her a stronger RABBIT DOG in the long run.

Here we have to drive all over the county to have good chances at putting them on deer to break,i'm not worried if their not born " naturally straight" if one is GREAT if not,i'll do my work as you do and break them.
Just wished we had more chances close then we do or maybe we do and they just not fooling with them.I always run a older hound with my young hounds to keep them in check.
How bout i trade you a nice young dog for some of those deer to turn loose close to home

bunnie harvester · Post by **bunnie harvester** » Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:45 am

How better can you better a dog that jumps its own game ,that is smooth, straight,comes when you call, don`t run off game, runs it back to the gun or to the hole??????????????????? BETTER WHAT ?????

Big Dog · Post by **Big Dog** » Wed Aug 18, 2004 2:03 pm

To Lynn Perkins - I see your point on lack of opportunity to run deer, that situation can be a two sided sword. Dog one never see's a deer and is just naturally straight. Dog Two never see's a deer so when he does see one he wants to give the big stinking white tail a try since it gives off a whooole lot of scent.(LOL) I think we both agree though that we don't worry about deer running when making a cross. I'll just break them when they start, in the famous words of another North Carolinian(Barney Fife) Nip It in the Bud!!!!! LMAO

Big Dog

OldSchool · Post by **OldSchool** » Wed Aug 18, 2004 9:38 pm

Hey Big Dog was wondering if u had any pups out of Storm yet? If so how did they turn out? Thanks for any info.

Big Dog · Post by **Big Dog** » Wed Aug 18, 2004 9:49 pm

to Old Scool - I don't want to hog J Murphy's Post so I will keep it short. Storm just turned 2 in July and I normally don't breed a male until he is at least 2. I will be breeding him this fall and see how he is producing. He is my favorite dog out of all of the dogs I own.

Big dog

S.R.Patch · Post by **S.R.Patch** » Wed Aug 18, 2004 10:54 pm

It's best not to make the running of off-game natural to them through the breeding...Patch

OldSchool · Post by **OldSchool** » Thu Aug 19, 2004 6:00 pm

Don't want to steal the post either. Was wondering if u had any idea what gyps u may be breeding? Really like the way the Storm dog looks and the way u describe him running is what I look for in a male dog. Thanks.

pete young · Post by **pete young** » Sun Aug 29, 2004 6:14 pm

it looks like i am 1 controversial post behind, but i want to chime in on this one. i have had rabbit dogs for the better part of 20 years. i have only started keeping registered dogs for the last 3 years. i have found that most people that are into registered dogs also do a little feild trialing. i went to my first field trial only 2 years ago. i had a great time and it got me hooked. the one thing that has left a little bad taste in my mouth is the jealosy that goes along with competition. i had a friend make a statement a little while back that "we have the best dogs in the world right here in kentucky (only an opinion), but there is so much jealousy that we let it stand in the way of making the best crosses". i have to agree with him. if we are truly concerned about breeding for the "elite" dog then we should not let the competitive demon come out in us when we are looking for the right sire or dam for our next litter. competition is intended to be fun, not a reason to bad mouth the people that are winning and more importantly not a reason to hold back the breed. i think we all could stand to be a little less kennel blind and not be afraid to admit when another person has a better dog than ours. i know it is only human nature to be a little envious, but it is one of our more harmful faults. i am sure that everyone that makes a breeding is hoping for the best, but if we would put more emphasis on the desired traits than we do on who is going to beat us at the next trial then the breed would be better in the long run. i am trying to look to the future with my kennel and how i am doing that is looking at the past. i am hoping to find that one female with all of the right stuff that is backed up with several generations of the same characteristics and breeding her to the best male i can, regardless of whether it beat me at the last field trial or not. after all, isn't it all about the dogs and the fellowship, not the trophies?

GREG WELLS · Post by **GREG WELLS** » Mon Aug 30, 2004 2:37 am

I agree! Sounds like you have the right attitude to be a good fld. trial judge.

Hilltop Kennels · Post by **Hilltop Kennels** » Mon Aug 30, 2004 6:29 am

This is probabely already been said but I will give my 2 cents anyway lol. I think it all depends on the guy doing the breeding. Everybody is different and everybody likes something a little different, so with that said breed what you like and run what you like because most people will like some of the same traits that you do usually and then that is the guys you need to stay in touch with and run your dogs with and try to breed for the same traits that you like. This is a very broad question on my opinion if there was a million responses their would be a lot of different answers.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Aug 30, 2004 6:50 am

Hilltop:
You are correct .This is a very broad question and is purposely so.This phrase is one of those that is used often but seldom seriously considered .The idea behind these posts is to cause dialog and to get people to consider stuff they havent before.Your input is appreciated and worth a bunch more than 2 cents.As we go along these posts will get a little bit more controversial but with everything thats going on right now I am going kind of slow.
Thanks
J.Murphy/Murphy's Kennel