no more oversized dogs

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Bunnyblaster
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Re: no more oversized dogs

Post by Bunnyblaster »

toldyouso wrote:listen two things one is has there ever been a dog challenged on the bench answer no. Is this not where the standard should be up held the bench show is where your breeders are striving to put a product in the market if we all agree big ears straight legs lenth of a dogs tail and the standard size of a beagle should not exceed 15. That said i have seen judges mesurer tails ears over look bobbed tails which is a fault of a beagle but never ever have i seen a mesurer stand brought out at a bench show. If that is not two faced then what is. Why has their not ever been a protest on a bench show a dog at the world this year won with a under bite and this is promoting your breed standard. Listen if u want to fix it fix it but do not do it halfass. Idea after a dog hits 18 months have him offially mesured if that dog goes over stripe his papers refund the registration money to the owner and do not allow that dog to breed in your registration. Its that easy period. You said lets take a roll call on this question about rather people would vote rather a big dog should be in or out. That will not happen because it is only a hand full of people bitching. Their imporant people in the organization but not many so do not worry they will not give you a vote. I can guarantee that. Now that i have showed you how to fix it i Will tell you why it will not get fix MONEY MONEY MONEY buy your card spend your money and you will still be challenged at the stake. Someone still will bitch and you will be out what ever they charge you for your card. But ha u will have a card not worht nothing but u have one. The only stand you can use is only made by one man Chip do you think he is going to make out like a bandit. Once again it is not about the hound it is about the Money. Believe it!!!!!!!!!!

You're still missing the point. It is in the rules for each individual event, registry, format, whatever. If you don't like the rules then either see about getting them changed, find one that suits you and your dogs or don't go play. No one said you HAVE to go to that event or any event for that matter. You are choosing to participate but don't wanna play by the rules. You can argue all day long about whether or not you think this, that or the other thing about it is unfair or stupid.........and I'll probably even agree with you on some of them. But you can't argue that breaking the rules should be ok.........that's the kind of justification my kids use.
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Joeyman
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Re: no more oversized dogs

Post by Joeyman »

i had one of my dogs measured this past weekend. 16.5" :eyes: I put him back in the dog box........lmao Oh well nothing I can do he'll just have to be strictly a gun-dog only.
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RunninHard
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Re: no more oversized dogs

Post by RunninHard »

mybeagles wrote:Create a new class of 15-17" so guys could bring a 17.5" because "its a waste of time" to train a dog and have it go over and not be able to trial it.

I'm sure some of you are aware they have night hunts.....they just run different game. No size limits either.

Mybeagles

Like I said it was just a thought and I do not trail and I also meant 15" + as in "no size limit"

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RunninHard
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Re: no more oversized dogs

Post by RunninHard »

How are they measured ? To the top of the front shoulder ?

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TC
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Re: no more oversized dogs

Post by TC »

Yes you measure at the Very Top of the Withers.
When you feel down the back from the Neck you will feel the tip or top of the shoulder blades there will be an indentation between the shoulder blades put your finger there then set the bar on the stand directly in front of your finger this will put it at the top of the withers.
As far as getting the Dog to Stand place both feet directly under the dog straight up and down the withers will be located straight up from behind the front leg.
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RunninHard
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Re: no more oversized dogs

Post by RunninHard »

TC wrote:Yes you measure at the Very Top of the Withers.
When you feel down the back from the Neck you will feel the tip or top of the shoulder blades there will be an indentation between the shoulder blades put your finger there then set the bar on the stand directly in front of your finger this will put it at the top of the withers.
As far as getting the Dog to Stand place both feet directly under the dog straight up and down the withers will be located straight up from behind the front leg.

Ok Thank you sir
I am just curious on what my dogs measure out at , I will give it a try, I will at least get a ballpark figure on them

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RunninHard
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Re: no more oversized dogs

Post by RunninHard »

mybeagles wrote: I'm sure some of you are aware they have night hunts.....they just run different game. No size limits either.

Mybeagles

Are you talking walkerbeagles ? Where they run rabbit during daylight and Coon at night ? ... :lol:
This is a joke aslo... ;)

Brooksidebeagler
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Re: no more oversized dogs

Post by Brooksidebeagler »

I don't think most of the people who run in trials are mad about not running dogs that are over . The problem is the dogs that are right at 15". These dogs can be measured over depending on the day an extra pound on the dog or if the person doing the measuring is trying to measure the dog in or trying to measure the dog out. Also if you have a male lead another male dog up while he is being measured most males will puff up a little in the presence of another male dog. What about a dog with a thick coat? There are just to many things that can play into it. People doing the measuring don't even have to be cetified to official measure.

The biggest problem is the way it was presented where it was presented and the lack of details given (which makes everyone question the amount of thought put into the whole thing). When changes are made in an organization of this size the details must be worked out before any anouncement is made if this is not done there are to many questions and speculations flying around hence a 13 page post on the beagle board. Being able to vote on rule changes by a committee that is out at the events every weekend spending their money at the hunts would be great.

I have limited time to run dogs so if the dog can not run in the trials he will not stay around. (except the young pups or the old retired dogs) so even though running dogs is a passion of mine if I can't take them to a trial on the weekend why waste my time or resources on the dog.
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mybeagles
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Re: no more oversized dogs

Post by mybeagles »

I have limited time to run dogs so if the dog can not run in the trials he will not stay around. (except the young pups or the old retired dogs) so even though running dogs is a passion of mine if I can't take them to a trial on the weekend why waste my time or resources on the dog.
That seems reasonable......

Some guys travel long distances with oversize/borderline dogs which makes the measuring stand very stressful. Ive never had a big issue with a guy taking his chances with a borderline hound, so long as he doesn't cop an attitude with the judge when he measures out.

I have a big issue with a dog that's way over, the owner knows it. Some of them will whip the dogs with leather straps or make them spooky around a measuring stand by various ways and then stand over the judge and try to intimidate them during measurement. Ive had it happen to me as a judge more times than I can count, and I do my best to get an honest measurement on the dog and send it home......

As was stated, there are 1000's of different scenerio's. Some are much more blatant than others. If you have a borderline dog and it measures out, and you choose to keep trying, expect to gain a reputation for running oversize dogs. Like someone on the other side of the argument stated, "I don't loose any sleep over it", neither do I. The little bit of trialing I attend is to relax, enjoy the dogs, and dog talk. Not interested in defending a borderline dog or worrying that I will measure out in the winners pack.

Hope to see you at the trials.....even if you do have an oversize dog...... :shock:

Mybeagles
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toldyouso
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Re: no more oversized dogs

Post by toldyouso »

once again i am not missing the point i am just saying if you are going to fix the dam thing do it right you guys keep hinding behind this dam rule that is so grey when it comes to mesurer a dog correctly. I have only seen one person on here that even knows how to mesurer a dog. They are not suppose to be prop they are to stand in a natural position and the stand is to go directly behind the withers not on top of the withers BEHIND the withers. Ask any AKC judge this is where this was adopted NKC did not think this up on there own. Man its not that hard. All i ask is if my hound is over can i have my money back that is the right thing to do since all the sudden we are all about the right thing. Yea right lol

10ACbeagles
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Re: no more oversized dogs

Post by 10ACbeagles »

I wish I could walk up on someone whipping their dog with a leather strap!!!Not only is that cheating but its complete B.S.!!!!!that person(s)has no business being in this sport.If you have to whip your dog or take any step to ensure it measures under then your cheating point blank period.Accept that fact and move on.Get a smaller dog or breed smaller anything but that nonsence.The thought of a man whipping his dog so scare it so it wont stand tall and proud makes me mad and to that I say come on down to my neck of the woods and let me see you doing that :censored: just so they can have a ribbon and trophy(cause lets face it it means more to the owners than it does to the dogs they'd settle for a pat on the head)

I may catch heat for my opinion but what does a person get out of cheating at these trials? My god people spend big money buying/registering/feeding/maintaining health, put countless hours into these dogs in the fields to get them ready(no matter the weather)then get in your vehicles spend more money on gas for trip,then spend time making the trip.......only to get to the location an try cheating.I say if you take the sport THAT SERIOUS then follow the rules to a "T" that way when/if you win theres not only a sence of pride in the win but thats one less excuse for people to have.
God made dogs....Then he made BEAGLES!

wvrabbithunter26836
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Re: no more oversized dogs

Post by wvrabbithunter26836 »

:D :lol: :argue: :bash: :censored: :loser: KEEP IT GOING.....

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Collins Country
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Re: no more oversized dogs

Post by Collins Country »

WILL LEFEVERS wrote:I dont see how this issue can ever be fixed because dogs are measured differently by different people. I sure dont understand about the possibility of how you can get an official measurement card saying dog is 15 or under and then still be subject to measure out at the next casting stake. I understand what the rule is and something is going to happen because of the ones that complain but how can a dog run one weekend in a trial and not in the next..... dont make sense to me , I seen big dogs this weekend and smaller dogs get it done. I know a rule is a rule , and a good dog comes in all sizes so the powers to be have some issues to resolve for LP.
Good Post!!!
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Mo. Beagler 5000
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Re: no more oversized dogs

Post by Mo. Beagler 5000 »

They dont have a 15+ class becuase it is a FAULT.... Its not supposed to happen... Beagles were bred to be 11-15in. you can start an over 15 club i suppose but I doubt akc would ever recognize it s a beagle... why not just run a fox hound, its just a large beagle as far as the standard goes..

I have yet to see a judge measure a dog right..even once. it wouldnt be much discrepency if people learned how to do it and took it serious... we police ourselves in this sport,,
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MasonsBeagles
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Re: no more oversized dogs

Post by MasonsBeagles »

American Rare Breed Association





FCI-Standard N° 161 / 24. 07. 2000 / GB
BEAGLE


ORIGIN : Great-Britain.


DATE OF PUBLICATION OF THE ORIGINAL VALID STANDARD : 24.06.1987.


UTILIZATION : Hound.


CLASSIFICATION F.C.I. : Group 6 Scenthounds. Section 1.3 Small-sized Hounds. With working trial.

GENERAL APPEARANCE : A sturdy, compactly-built hound, conveying the impression of quality without coarseness.


BEHAVIOUR / TEMPERAMENT : A merry hound whose essential function is to hunt, primarily hare, by following a scent. Bold, with great activity, stamina and determination. Alert, intelligent and of even temperament. Amiable and alert, showing no aggression or timidity.


HEAD : Fair length, powerful without being coarse, finer in the bitch, free from frown and wrinkle.


CRANIAL REGION :
Skull : Slightly domed, moderately wide, with slight peak.
Stop : Well defined, dividing length, between occiput and tip of nose, as equally as possible.


FACIAL REGION :
Nose : Broad, preferably black, but less pigmentation permissible in lighter coloured hounds. Nostrils wide.
Muzzle : Not snipey.
Lips : Reasonably well flewed.
Jaws/Teeth : Jaws should be strong, with a perfect, regular and complete scissor bite, i.e. the upper teeth closely overlapping the lower teeth and set square to the jaws.
Eyes : Dark brown or hazel, fairly large, not deep set or prominent, set well apart with mild appealing expression.
Ears : Long, with rounded tip, reaching nearly to end of nose when drawn out. Set on low, fine in texture and hanging gracefully close to cheeks.


NECK : Sufficiently long to enable hound to come down easily to scent, slightly arched and showing little dewlap.


BODY :
Topline : Straight and level.
Loin : Short in the couplings, but well balanced. Loins powerful and supple.
Chest : Let down to below elbow. Ribs well sprung and extending well back.
Belly : Without excessive tuck-up.

TAIL : Sturdy, moderately long. Set on high, carried gaily but not curled over back or inclined forward from root. Well covered with hair, especially on underside.


LIMBS


FOREQUARTERS : Forelegs straight and upright well under the hound, good substance and round in bone, not tapering off to feet.
Shoulders : Well laid back, not loaded.
Elbows : Firm, turning neither in nor out. Height to elbow about half height at withers.
Pasterns : Short.


HINDQUARTERS :
Upper thigh : Muscular.
Stifles : Well bent.
Hocks : Firm, well let down and parallel to each other.


FEET : Tight and firm. Well knuckled up and strongly padded. Not hare-footed. Nails short.


GAIT / MOVEMENT : Back level, firm with no indication of roll. Stride free, long reaching in front and straight without high action; hind legs showing drive. Should not move close behind nor paddle nor plait in front.


COAT


HAIR : Short, dense and weatherproof.


COLOUR : Any recognized hound colour other than liver. Tip of stern white.


SIZE :
Desirable minimum height at withers 33 cm (13 ins).
Desirable maximum height at withers 40 cm (16 ins).


FAULTS : Any departure from the foregoing points should be considered a fault and the seriousness with which the fault should be regarded should be in exact proportion to its degree and its effect upon the health and welfare of the dog.


Any dog clearly showing physical or behavioural abnormalities shall be disqualified.


N.B. : Male animals should have two apparently normal testicles fully descended into the scrotum.
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