no more oversized dogs

[maplehill]

You want to know why people run dogs over 15"? I know I wondered the same thing. I never cared to run against them, but always wondered. Now i know though. Because they raise a pup from 8 weeks old, train the hell out of it running night and day, and then it grows to be a little over mans standards. They know they have a badass dog, not because he's 15 1/2", but because he can track a rabbit with his nose like a mad man. So what are you suppose to do, give your best dog away because he's a 1/2" to tall? I hope this never happens to any of the people on here whining cause it sucks. Trust me, I know.

[TC]

Todd i Know Where you are coming From I Got TWO here that Went Over. One of Em is absolutely the best conformation Dog I have Ever bred BUT he will Never Show Due to His SIZE another I have was pointed in AKC show and Burning Rabbits up had a Win in HB Format and them WENT OVER..
BUT here is the Thing I KNOW the RULES I Never Even TRIED to Enter them.. the RULES say 15" and UNDER NOT 15" and a little bit" Just got em Here Enjoying them Both! I Have other's to COMPETE with.
Now that being SAID I Have Always Tried to Play by the RULEs in Every Format I have Ever Competed in and I have been to Em All.
And I WILL CALL a Dog out. Not because I Am Worried about getting beat Hell I get Whooped up On all the Time!! But because the Rules are there for a reason and I feel that ALL SHOULD Abide by them PERIOD. Dont like a Rule then do What ya have to To get it Changed but in the mean Time Play by the Rules!!!
I Am a Breed inspector and Show judge in ARHA and UKC and I can HONESTLY SAY I have NEVER registered a Dog that was OVER 15" "EXCEPT in UKC" Where it is NOT against the Rules to Register a hound over 15" you just cannot compete with them!! you mark on the paperwork OVER 15" and Sign it...A lot of Hounds get registered as Puppies then Go OVER the Standard. That is WHY every Dog is Measured before a Hunt in UKC We have measured over 100 dogs at an Event before Deadline in the AM you set the bar at 15" drop it over the Mark and if they are under mark the card.
Now I have seen Guys measure dogs up on the neck and in the middle of the Back THAT AINT RIGHT!!! it calls for a hound to be measured at the withers between the shoulder blades you can feel where the indent is between the shoulders set the hounds feet directly under them drop the bar and there you are. correct measuring is the key here. if Done RIGHT and consistently a hound will measure pretty much the SAME every time..
IF I Say IF you bring a hound that You think Might Go over then By all means have it measured just ASK a club member Most Will be happy to Help out..
I FEEL that ARHA needs to Have a Class for every breed inspector SHOWING how to measure a Hound Correctly. AND IF you bring a Hound to Trial that is OVER then Dont get all bent out of Shape when We call it out......

[Mo. Beagler 5000]

AWESOME POST TC

[cpuckett]

14 15 16 . bring it on

i will NEVER measure nobody's dog just like scott said let's run um head to head,besides rules are broke everyday.speedlimits-stopin completely at stop signs-wearing seat belts if u break them rules then there is no difference,i do agree that u will get several different measurements from different people.i'll take a BIG 15 inch dog with a ton of heart over a little dog with a ton of heart....

[mobeagle]

Dont run registered dogs and i dont trial but i do have a thought to add on this. If the dog has papers and is a PUREBRED beagle who gives a crap if its 15.5inches. Seriously? Breeding standards? A freakin beagle is a beagle. Some are just bigger than others in every breed. Does that make them not part of the breed? Never could understand how a dog couldnt be registered with proof of breeding because it stood 1/2 inch to tall. Sure this will ruffle a few feathers with those wanting to protect the idea of what a beagle is but just think about that. A true beagle is dog out of two beagles. Thats it. Nothing more nothing less JMO.

[TC]

Dont run registered dogs and i dont trial but i do have a thought to add on this. If the dog has papers and is a PUREBRED beagle who gives a crap if its 15.5inches. Seriously? Breeding standards? A freakin beagle is a beagle. Some are just bigger than others in every breed. Does that make them not part of the breed? Never could understand how a dog couldnt be registered with proof of breeding because it stood 1/2 inch to tall. Sure this will ruffle a few feathers with those wanting to protect the idea of what a beagle is but just think about that. A true beagle is dog out of two beagles. Thats it. Nothing more nothing less JMO.

Whoever told you you Could not register a Dog over 15" was FOS you Can register the hound in UKC you just cannot COMPETE in Conformation or trials with it.
Same with AKC they dont even ask in AKC the size of the hound!! EXCEPT in Field trials and Conformation as almost all AKC beagles are registered as puppies and they Dont come back in 6 mo or a year and say is the Dog over 15" now??? If So we will revoke your registration it just aint gonna happen..

I REPEAT you CAN register a beagle over 15" with UKC you just Cannot Compete with them!! except in agility and weight pull..
ALMOST ALL Beagles or DOGS for that matter are registered BEFORE they are 6 mo old in AKC so how are they to know if the hound goes over the standard.
the 15" is again a RULE to Compete in trials and Conformation as the Dog MUST meet breed Standards to compete...
Oh And Mo beagler SOME people Do CARE about the Standard and the breed itself.

[mybeagles]

So what are you suppose to do, give your best dog away because he's a 1/2" to tall?

Todd,

No one said you have to give it away, you just don't enter it in trials. Thats not the end of the world. The other thing you do is breed to some smaller hounds to bring their size back to 14" or so. Most of the time you can tell a dog is going to be big and possibly oversized by the time they are 4-6 months old. That would be a good time to sell them to someone that doesnt trial so you dont have to "waste all that time". The other option when breeding a pair of 15" dogs is to keep the smaller pups in the litter. If you want a kennel with full 15" hounds, you run the risk of them getting to big, its the chance you take.

Mybeagles

[maplehill]

If i want 14 to 15" dogs why would i breed to a small bitch and hope to get one 15' hound and 5 13's? I was just answering some peoples questions about why people run oversize hounds. Its not because they think they have an advantage, its because of exactly what i said, the dog is a badass dog that can run a track. Not because we add up how many steps it takes a 13" dog to run as far as a 16" dog. I guess you would rather run with 4 other dogs that were all 15" and under, but blew up every race and your cast sucked because of it. And TC, if ARHA was worried about the breed standard, they wouldnt single register grade dogs that look like fiests. The breed standard should also include being able to run a rabbit like a beagle should. I like a good looking dog as much as any one else, but honestly, im more worried about how the dog runs the rabbit, not how they look propped on a bench. If you see my dog at the stake and want to measure him, have at it. I'll walk him back to the truck not feeling any worse than when i walked him to the stake. As far people saying thats cheating, whats the ol saying, if you aint cheating, you aint trying. Guess that could be my new signature.

[mybeagles]

Todd,

If i want 14 to 15" dogs why would i breed to a small bitch and hope to get one 15' hound and 5 13's?

No disadvantage to 13-14" hounds, same as 16" AND you can make everyone happy

If you see my dog at the stake and want to measure him, have at it. I'll walk him back to the truck not feeling any worse than when i walked him to the stake.

I think they call that a seared concience.

For some, dishonesty and cheating is a way of life. They try to cheat in every aspect of life. Ive met those that feel like life has cheated them, so they are going to cheat to get things even. I steer real clear of these guys.....

Your motto may be "if you aint cheaten you aint tryin".........my motto is more of a "what goes around, comes around" If you cheat, expect others to cheat you and always keep one eye over your shoulder.

Interesting topic, and I'm glad to see the brutal honesty from the dishonest....

Mybeagles

[bucks better beagles]

My Beagles, you have a way of breaking things down into their most essential, and simplest form. Either dishonest or honest. No excuses, no alibis. Do the crime, pay the time. I like it.

[bucks better beagles]

When this is all over, I think someone should do a poll of how many people say it is alright to break the law under certain circumstances. Like run red lights, stop signs, and just about any other rule out there. Better yet, it would be nice to have the names of all these rule breakers. LOL

[mybeagles]

Good idea buck,

Lets have a roll call for everyone that thinks it's perfectly fine to run an oversized hound in the trials.

Mybeagles

[maplehill]

Mybeagles, the saying thing was a joke. I think anybody on here that knows me would tell you I would be the last to cheat anybody. We have a different opinion on this topic, anybody that runs against a big dog has the right to measure. So id they dont, are they an accessory to the crime, lol. Some people on hear try to act like there is only right and wrong, and those same people do little things against the rules everyday like the rolling stop and speeding. Are they wrong, yes, are you goon to hell for it, no. If you get caught, you get a fine. Can you sleep at night afterwards, I'm sure you can. Same with running a 15 1/2" dog, if I get called out, I get dq'd. Can I sleep at night, yes. Am I a terrible person who should be watched like a criminal, whatever floats your boat I guess. Must not be very many people you don't
Look over your shoulder at?

[hookset]

I guess everyone on here spouting "a rule is a rule" always does everything right. Sets their cruise control on 55 mph, not 63. I hear everyday "I don't speed, I just set the cruise on 5 over and go." Or, "I was just going with the flow of traffic." They'll get all over someone for a 15 1/2" dog and spout off about strict adherence to the rules making you a good person, but drive like a moron getting to a hunt late. If there wasn't a 'gray' area within the rules. No one here would have a driver's license to get to a hunt.

If a dog goes over, then why don't they pull the registry of that dog or not allow it to breed if we're concerned about the breed standard? I can call AKC or ARHA or UKC and tell them I want to breed to a 17" hound and they don't care. I've never bred for an oversized dog, but it happens.

The last person I saw call a dog out at the stake didn't wear their seatbelt out of the parking lot. Good person or bad?

[WILL LEFEVERS]

I dont see how this issue can ever be fixed because dogs are measured differently by different people. I sure dont understand about the possibility of how you can get an official measurement card saying dog is 15 or under and then still be subject to measure out at the next casting stake. I understand what the rule is and something is going to happen because of the ones that complain but how can a dog run one weekend in a trial and not in the next..... dont make sense to me , I seen big dogs this weekend and smaller dogs get it done. I know a rule is a rule , and a good dog comes in all sizes so the powers to be have some issues to resolve for LP.