no more oversized dogs

[tinymwoods]

I hope not to make anyone mad with this post, but who is going to sell a ARHA approved stand? Are they going to verify the stand? Seems to me like there is a chance for some one to make a lot of $$$$$ off this deal. Also, who can measure a dog permanently? Any ARHA breed inspector or a state rep, or ARHA representative? We run a tight club (number of helpers) as it is with not a lot of local support but many great folks that drive a long distance to hunt in our club. I don't know how we could even measure the 30 hounds at our club. I hope they get all the bugs worked out of the system by next year. If a breed inspector measures a hound in that morning, why would you even call a hound out? He's not going to contradict himself unless it favors him. Who measures his dog? Interesting.........

Having said all these negative things, I like the rule. I think it will make people play by the rules.

[mike crabtree]

This does it for me!!!! Im going to start judging with a pencil that is sharpened on both ends!!!!!!!!!!!
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Im going to cheat everybody I know cause they are my buddies Their dogs will have to go 100 yards to get a check. Then Im going to score the guys I dont know a couple extra checks. That should make things about right .

[BG BEAGLER]

Need a partner Mike

[tinymwoods]

Sounds like what Tim said about my judging.

[Lone Pine Beagles]

A few years back the ARHA had a "harehound" division.
Michigan may have been the only state hosting hunts.
But anyway, when they made the rules alot of people wanted to run bigger dogs.
So it was written to allow beagles up to 16".
As the trials were run people kept bringing BIGGER dogs.
Pretty soon they're trying to crowd 17inchers under the bar!

Within a year the 16" rule was abolished, and the "harehound" standard went back to 15".

LPB

[Mitch DeVore]

I think that most don't care about oversize dogs because most get by with it. The problem is the silent majarity that try to follow the rules are the ones who feel cheated. Like I said, You guys know if your dog is over size. There may be an advantage and there may not but can anyone say for sure why they choose to do so other than they have a problem following rules. Instead of wanting someone to change the rules why don't yall take those walkers and start your own format? Naw wait , I guess that would be too much like right.

[JCM]

I think it is funny that the Executive Board would make such a big deal of this when NO DOGS WERE MEASURED AT THE WORLD HUNT! Over 700 dogs entered and not one was measured. And I didn't really see any dogs that stood out as being way oversized. If it is such a big issue, then why wasn't there a lot of requests for measurement at the World?

Why not deal with real issues like declining entries, clubs folding, and dogs that bark up the track so bad you can't have a good chase?

[bwe007]

the breed standard is 15". i am a purest and think the dogs should stay 15" or under. a 16" dog does have an advantage over a smaller dog. the same can be said for the advantage a 15" dog has over a 13". i was at the world and saw several beagles 17"+. i don't think they were being ran in the hunt though. the permenent measuring card is a joke. everybody knows a breed inspector. the nkc won't see any of my money for one.

[barryc]

The only reason I can see anyone making a big deal over the new measurement procedures is because they have a dog at home that they are or want to run that exceeds 15". Breed your dogs to meet the standards set in place and we won't have to have these silly height discussions.

[JCM]

The only reason I can see anyone making a big deal over the new measurement procedures is because they have a dog at home that they are or want to run that exceeds 15". Breed your dogs to meet the standards set in place and we won't have to have these silly height discussions.

If you are a Breed Inspector or Master of Hounds, you definitely should be concerned about this. This whole convoluted idea of an official measurement that isn't official, and a dog measured that could be measured again is going to be a mess at hunts. I don't keep dogs that are over 15" but this rule would still be a pain in the butt!

As I said before, the ARHA should worry about real problems like declining entries and losing clubs. This is just one more thing that creates controversy and will hurt entries.

[DoubleEagle]

I think it is funny that the Executive Board would make such a big deal of this when NO DOGS WERE MEASURED AT THE WORLD HUNT! Over 700 dogs entered and not one was measured. And I didn't really see any dogs that stood out as being way oversized. If it is such a big issue, then why wasn't there a lot of requests for measurement at the World?

Why not deal with real issues like declining entries, clubs folding, and dogs that bark up the track so bad you can't have a good chase?

Really JCM what people need to start worrying about when it comes to Trials in Indiana, is PETA and the HSUS.

The bill they're trying to push through in Indiana is supposedly targeting Fox & Coyote pens. However if you read it... it says "Fox, Coyote, and other animals". That is a pretty broad range. Coupled with the restrictions on size, escape routes, and inspection this is something people should really be concerned about.

[TOUCHSTONE]

If a registry is going to require dogs to be measured they should also be certain to qualify those doing the measuring and the equipment used. Knowing the top of the withers, allowing the dog to stand correctly and relaxed, flat level surface, etc.

Once a dog measures in at a hunt it should not be subject to measuring out in a latter round. Best to measure before going to the field the first round.

Permanent measuring should only be done by a select few.

With the way we run these dogs hard I do believe the height changes a fraction up and down with them. I don't feel it is in any way cheating to run a dog that is close to the standard. Because many dogs show up that are close the measuring needs to be accurate and that can be hard with some of these dogs. I have enjoyed running dogs that I did not need to worry about. Would hate to drive many hours to an event then not get to run. Once upon a time I also put the time and effort into a dog that just kept growing and went a tad over. He is an awsome rabbit dog and his new owner realy likes him.

As a breeder do you guarantee the pups you place will not have any disqualifying faults? It is my responsability as a breeder to put out pups that are within the standard. I would replace a pup that went oversize with a pup from a future litter, stud service, etc. Breeding dogs that fit the standard is up to breeders. Having and following rules and procedures to enforce the standard is up to the registry. Don't see bigger dogs as any real advantage in the competition. The concern is what those dogs go on to produce. Height is a genetic trait even though it is influenced by nutrition and other factors.

[jimb1069]

the breed standard is 15". i am a purest and think the dogs should stay 15" or under. a 16" dog does have an advantage over a smaller dog. the same can be said for the advantage a 15" dog has over a 13". i was at the world and saw several beagles 17"+. i don't think they were being ran in the hunt though. the permenent measuring card is a joke. everybody knows a breed inspector. the nkc won't see any of my money for one.

Please explain this advantage. Ive asked several times and the only answer I get is the deep snow advantage. There has to be more to than that for it to cause this much stink. For any advantage Id say the opposite disadvantage can be argued. If its the rule then fine.

[bwe007]

a taller dog can run faster than ashorter one. longer legs and a longer stride. i have a 13" bitch who can keep up for awhile but the energy she exerts trying to stay in the front eventually takes its toll. she has a ton of heart and will practically kill herself before she lets another dog take her rabbit. but after some time the shorter dog can't keep up. now i'm not comparing apples to oranges. if both dogs are say a 9 out of 10 on speed the taller dog has an advantage. now if you're comparing a 9 to a 5 then the 9 will run the front no matter the size difference.

[mybeagles]

bwe007,