need some info on little ireland beagles.

[gamekeeper]

Thank you gus you articulate much better than i as after 50 years around dog nuts i have no patience.The remains of LI bloodlines is so diluted it bears no resemblence of the real LI as we experienced.

[Aaron Bartlett]

Game Keeper,
The subject of this thread is Little Ireland hounds. It is not about Tom Dornin or what bad experience you may of had with him. Since I understand Tom has passed im sure the author of this post could care less about your experiences with him. Please try to stick to the topic. Thank You!

[ernie jarvis]

i own 8 reg beagles robbs diamond ll, gays and 3 little irelands the three little irelands are my best dogs they hunt hard and all day with medium to medium fast. they handle exclent and have great kennel maners. ithey have about 30 fc. in there blood line they are great not spooks as some one els said about them. the male. will set them on the ground with ony ones dogs

[Chris]

Some interesting discussion. Learned a lot that I hadn't known.

[S.R.Patch]

Now that we've slandered the deceased, that can't speak to defend themselves, I wonder what those who speak with tongues of fire have given of themselves and accomplished in the breeding of our little hounds...Hummm

Surely 50 yr's being around dog nuts had shown them odds of having the platter lined with silver handed to them was not to be and that the best odds of getting what they wanted was to take up the cross and breed it for themselves, or not...Hummm

I'm with you Chris, but I don't think class is over just yet...Patch

[boss hog]

guys,i really appreciate the support and help you are giving me on this topic.much appreciated!i never thought it would go this far,but i guess you guys are what i would call true houndsman.helping a fellow houndsman when he needs it.

[Joe West]

I've been haveing trouble posting guys so I'm going to break my posts up into smaller blocks as I've been getting an invalid session warning.

As every experianced beagler knows no breeder has a 100% success rate. The best one can hope for is a success rate of around 80% but that still leaves 20 out of every 100 hounds bred as failures.

Whenever we buy pups or even started hounds we have no way of knowing for sure what the finished hound will eventually turn out to be. That is especially true if the hound is put in the care of a stranger whom we have no idea of what their training and care of hounds might be like. Some folks are good trainers of hounds and some are not.

[Joe West]

Gus I can well imagine how mad Tom was with you when you put that hound down and I would wager that your L.I. days were over whether you liked it or not.

Hounds just naturally give us all there devotion and the best they have through out their lives. It's only fair that we give them a nice retirement when they become too old to be useful anymore. For that matter even n old age beyond the physical ability to pursue game or give birth the hounds will still give you their complete devotion and that is worth something.

When a person shows such low regard of a hound as to kill them because they have become too old to serve them it shows a tendancy of disdain for the hounds which will definantly effect the persons ability to properly train hounds and get the most from them.

The idea that the hound was too old to have pups may or may not be correct. You don't say how old she was. It could well be that there was some other problem involved that was correctable. I once got a 12 year old L.I. bitch for the express purpose of trying to get a pup from her. We did get one from her too and then retired her.

[Joe West]

Back to percentages. Three of the first four L.I. hounds I got were not useful for hunting purposes for one reason or another. By your standard Gus and gamekeeper I should have condemned the line of hounds and the Dornins.

I didn't figure that way though because I knew the percentsages involved and since I played a bit of poker i knew what the luck of the draw was so I stuck it out. I had seen what I needed to see in the L.I. hounds and knew it was just a matter of luck. That would be true for any line of hounds. Some are good and some arent. My luck did change and I got a whole string of keepers includeing the best hunting hound I have ever seen. I would have never gotten them though if I hadn't known the risks and percentages of buying hounds.

It should also be important to note that of those three failures one of them was my own fault. A training error on my part ruined the hound so it is difficult to fault the Dornin's for my mistake. So now actually of my first 4 hounds I had approx a 50% success rate. Now when you factor in the string of keepers I got after that my success rate was at or above the 80% mark that all breeders shoot for.

[Joe West]

The numbers have a way of evening out. You can have failures early and get good ones later or it can be the other way around. One thing is certain though; if you are buying or breeding hounds you will get your share of failures over the long haul. It could be sooner or it could be later it's all in the luck of the draw. And it doesn't matter what kennel or line of hounds you choose it will happen sooner or later that you will get some duds.


More later

[Steve C.]

My experience with Little Ireland hounds is very limited, however Butch Lizotte from Maine finished a hound on hare that featured a fair percentage of LI blood. He would considered conservative by most hare hunters but a good hound just the same. Rene Grenier also has LI blood in his kennel. I've judged several of his hounds and they have always impressed me. On snow and bare ground they hunt hard, have excellent noses and don't show the overcompetitiveness we so often see in Large Pack hounds. I think Rene's hounds have placed every time I've judged them and his Boot Camp Jake dog is one I admire. I would enjoy hunting with him I'm sure. I have an old bitch that shows LI dogs back in the 5th, 6th and 7th generation, including LI Beau Brady, on the very bottom of her pedigree. She was an exceptional hunting dog but I doubt the LI blood had much influence on her ability that far back. As for the shyness spoken of- this sounds to me like something more connected to the fact that Mr. Dornin was in ill health and unable to socialize his pups at the critical time for them. Maybe he should have liquidated his kennel before it came to that, I don't know, and I certainly won't judge him.

[Bev]

If people only knew how critical it is to socialize puppies from the 6-12 week period, they would understand shyness in beagles much better, and would blame genetics much less. If we miss that small window of where pups are considering human interaction with unprejudiced eyes, we have a struggle for trust from then on. As Steve says, T. Dornin's health may have prevented some of this socialization. It's not enough just to feed them daily, and those of you who have small children are probably reaping the benefits and don't even know it as your kids play with the puppies. Having no young kids here, we have to make a point to give our litters hands on playing and handling, but it pays off in the long run.

I tip my hat to any persons who struggled to preserve a line of gundogs when everyone else was promoting traditional brace beagles. We can tweak the hounds from here on. JMHO.

[VABEAGLER]

I to have had experience with the L.I Hounds. No i never owned a pure L.I from the Dornins but i know Mandy Bobbit and Billy Bobbit well. They currently own the Bedlam and the Glenbarr formal hunting packs. I have on numerous occasions run hounds with them and the L.I blood runs freely through the entire kennel. I have owned 4 hounds that carried L.I up close on both the sire and the dams side and i can assure you they are hunting dogs. Yes you get the occasional odd ball with any line but my personal experience has been great. The L.I line carried alot of great influence that could be used in some of todays beagles.

One of the greatest hounds i ever saw follow a track was slam full of L.I blood. Occasionally there were some things in the line to emerge but overall i would rate them highly. Anyone who thinks the Dornins didn't do anything for the breed is completely misguided and needs to step back and ask his or herself what do my hounds contribute to the betterment of the beagle breed as a hunting dog.

We should all thank the people like the Dornins who helped save the beagle as a hunting breed instead of belittle them when they are gone.

Brian

[gamekeeper]

When I need any advice from I'll ask for it in the mean time MYOB!!!As far as the Little Ireland dogs or pups needing socia;lization I have been breeding professionally for 40 years all breeds and types and I know when it is a meer socialization problem which can be over come and a radical congenital temperment problem which is hopeless all the early L I dogs were hopeless.When we have so many great breeders today I can't imagine why a person would waste his time on a line long gone that never amounted to a hill of beans their are excellent kennels in all areas of the country all types of hounds.

[Aaron Bartlett]

Gamekeeper,
For your info it becomes my business when you post some of the things you have posted on this board. I tried simply deleting some of your posts but evidentally you couldnt take a hint so I was forced to make the post to you that I did. In the future if you feel you need to run people down "by name" please use the private message feature, email, chat room or better yet pick up your phone and call them......just dont bring it to the board.
Thank you!