the truth about dog foods

[Full Choke]

Robdar,

Understanding requirements and bioavailability is nutritional science. If your interested in feeding your dogs correctly these are important questions. If you are not willing to ask these questions as a hunter/breeder then I do not believe you will ever find the "truth about dog food". Please don't take my comments the wrong way, I think many people (including myself) are confused with the rhetoric found on a bag of dog food.

For example, lysine is typically the first limiting amino acid for growth when non-ruminants (dogs, cats, chickens, swine, etc.) are fed corn based diets. Also lysine is the amino acid most effected by diet processing (canning and extrusion(dry dog food processing)). Despite the importance of lysine, I've never seen a percent lysine listed on a bag of dog food. In addition, the requirement for lysine would vary based on breed, activity and maintenace requirement. Is it possible for any dog food formulation to properly feed several breeds, or different strains of the same breed, or dogs of the same strain reared in different environments? My answer would be - No. However, commercial feeds are the best option available. There is no way possible that a person could formulate their own holistic/boiled meat diet that would be superior to a commercial diet, unless they have their own research lab.

Diet formulation is extremely complicated. For each ingredient utilized in a commercial formulation it is necessary to know the digestibility of the various nutrients in that ingredient. Moreover, the bioavailability of the nutrients must be estimated. These values are then used to meet pre-determined requirements for the animal to be fed. This would not be practical for the average person creating diets for their hounds. What makes things even more complicated is that digestibility and bioavailability can change with different lots of ingredients and processing parameters.

In conclusion, nutritionists can not feed every animal correctly all of the time, however we do our best to present the best option available.

Joe

[WSRandy]

I would like to know what the differences in Chicken By product, Chicken Meal and real Chicken?

Just last night I had to go buy a bag of food, while there I looked at several different brands and only found 1 brand that said Chicken as main ingredient and that was Iams.

I feed Diamond but notice that the bag says Chicken By-Product Meal as main ingredient....when I see By-Product or meal, I always assume leftover scraps, is that a wrong assumption? I have also tried contacting Diamond for the last 2 months with no luck.......I say their customer service sucks!

On another note, I saw the post on the guy feeding dogs some kind of berries......well my dogs love apples, pears, carrots, corn and green beans! As a matter of fact..............if not for the cost and the fact I am boycotting Purina products, I would feed Purina Beneful.

Oh well, enough from me.

Best to you all, Randy

[Full Choke]

WSRandy,

The answer to your question about chicken, poultry by-product meal etc. may be answered by a reference book produced by AAFCO (Association of American Feed Control Officials). For example, for an ingredient to be called chicken by-product meal it would have to meet a minimum for crude protein and have a maximum limit of calcium and phosphorus, which would prevent excess bone scrap being used in the ingredient.

Poultry by-product meal is produced essentially from waste generated during poultry meat processing. This is a great source of essential amino acids and macro and trace minerals. However, it is quite variable since sometimes feathers are included in the ingredient and sometimes they are not. Also heat processing may effect the nutritional value. These two variables may effect amino acid digestibility and bioavailability.

Before feeding too many fruits and vegetables, you may want to consider the importance and source of vitamin B12.

Sorry, I don't have an AAFCO manual handy or I could offer a more specific answer; however, as I've stated, a definition of a feed ingredient is not enough to ascertain its value. Hope this helps.

Joe

[Guest]

My wife and I believe in Eukanuba Maintenance, and they have a similar food for active dogs, too, that we've never tried. We've tried a number of dog foods for a variety of reasons: cost, availability, gifts, etc, on a number of dogs (we've taken in about 50 shelter dogs in the past two years), and Eukanuba seems to be the one that produces the firmest stools and least odor. It's somewhat pricey, but since it doesn't have the filler that a lot of other foods have, it's not much more expensive (or even cheaper) in the long run. Sure, $34 for a 40-lb bag sounds like a lot when there are other brands out there for $18-20, but when you can feed a dog 1.5 cups/day of Eukanuba and have to feed 3 cups/day of the other stuff, you come out even or ahead in the long run.

I did have a beagle that liked nothing but "Kibbles n' bits n'bits n'bits." The funny thing is that he'd generally only eat a few types of "bits" on any given day/week/month. The next day/week/month, he'd pick thru the food and eat other types of "bits" instead.

[Alabama John]

Guest, we feed the same Eukanuba as you and our dogs (5 grown and 6 teenaged pups) are on self feeders. Our pups have never known anything but Eukanuba and self feeders. They are slim and trim not fat and rolly polly as most would suspect.
We tried the premium performance (30-20) and could not see any difference in the dogs looks or performance.
Small dark firm stools and no odor.
At first a new dog will just stand and eat and swell up but after a week or so, as it seems to be too rich, the new dog will change and will only eat what it needs like the old dogs do, a few bites several times during the day. Interestingly, they never seem to eat much at any one time.
Overall, the cost is the same, as they will eat much less in volume than other feeds.

[mmccluskey]

Has anyone heard of Pinnacle?

We've had problems with our Beagle being alergic to corn, and corn by products (found in most "production food"). He would consistantly vomit after eating. We also tried cooking chicken and vegetables which took care of the vomiting, but left our dogs skin and coat dried out (even with suppliments from the vet).

A local pet shop had a guying peddeling this Pinnacle food and he claimed it should take care of the issue...and everything else.

Well after a few months, no vomiting, skin and coat are back to normal, and our ever so fat little dog has even managed to shed a few pounds.

It's a little more expensive, but it's worth it so far.

Anyway, just curious if anyone else has had any experience with this brand.

[mmccluskey]

Oh yeah...

Here's a link to some information on Pinnacle:

http://www.breeders-choice.com/Dog_Prod ... _orig.html

It's got the usual hype, plus a list of ingerdients.

We're paying $39.00 for a 30 lb. bag and have both Beagles on it now.

[Full Choke]

mmccluskey,

I love the hype, with that feed! Very informative! I'm also a believer in problems associated with vitamin oxidation.

I am wondering, however, what if you fed your dog a cheaper brand of feed that wasn't corn based. Several manufacturers produce a wheat based product to avoid complications with corn allergies.

Joe

[RobDar]

this conversation has gotten entirely too wierd...
Joe I will be sure to be more careful in the futrue as to how I word things so I dont offend the sensitive. I should have titled it "what I have learned about dog foods" I apologize for that.
These guys are right though....thier dogs are fed everything from kibbles and bits to top end hunting mix foods...and all thir dogs hunt and all sound to be healthy. Being in rescue ya know what matter to me the most...THAT THE DOGS ARE FED AT ALL!!!!!! You just simply would not believe the things I see in this work!

I sure would like to know what kind of berries that guys foxhounds were eating.

[kidspot]

Funny how dog food always brings out the discussion in folks - kind of like politics I guess Anyway I'm curious if anyone has experience feeding INOVA dog food? I am currently feeding Eukenuba puppy formula and will be switching to adult food soon (in about 6 weeks) - Eukenuba is the choice of the breeders I got my pup from, but a lot of folks around my area are recommending Inova because it uses human grade ingredients. Just wanting the opinion of some beaglers on it. Also has anyone tried feeding extra oil in their food to help with shedding? Just gathering ideas. . .

Tim